Are classical CDs suffering the same brickwall issues; old versions collectable?

We all know about the brickwalling issues with most recent Rock/pop CDs. My question is whether the same problems have afflicted classical issues?

Also, is there any real audiophile market for older (first) issue classical CDs, the way there now is with rock/pop CDs. There are a lot of rare, early issue classical CDs (both US and foreign issued), but are these much valued if the music has subsequently been reissued? In fact, are they much valued even if they haven't been reissued?

Kwad

 

My uneducated response is that I don't see that much classical music given multiple masterings for the compact disc. Once it's been mastered for cd, there it has generally remained, even if its has been occasionally repackaged. The major exception to that observation, however, has been remastering of classical for SACD and DVD-A. In most cases, that re-mastering is done right anyway.

The other issue is my belief that mastering is somehow less important than the actual performance and the recording of that performance. It comes down less to your preference for a given mastering than it does for a given performance. Often, this issue is tied to the recording quality for most people. Many people can appreciate Arthur Schnabel's playing, but that doesn't mean they can all deal with the recording fidelity.

It's generally choices like this (performance and recording) that make mastering a secondary issue for me. This certainly isn't always the case, but often it is. However, I'll go further to say that some houses have exceptional mastering, so good that it's evident that the recording was captured and then re-presented to the listener in the best way possible: Hyperion, Harmonia Mundi, and Virgin. Oh, and I'll always, always give props to the 1982 Teldarc cd of Robert Shaw conducting the ASO in Orff's Carmina Burana.

 

Kwadguy,

Classical cd's have not suffered the same fate as rock regarding compression. This coming from someone who has purchased new EMI and Chandos titles released within the last 2 years. I haven't bought anything new from DG or Sony in quite a while.

The collectability of older issues depends upon whether a recording is currently in print.

You won't find classical fans doing cartwheels at the local used cd store after finding an 80's West German cd with a silver hub.

 

My experience is that classical CD's don't have these mastering issues. Classical buffs LOVE dynamic reproduction, so they'd not stand for maximized mastering.

 

the problem with classical mastering isn't compression, but rather noise reduction and bad EQ choices. that said, it is difficult to find truly awful sounding mastering in classical music in my opinion.

by the way, it's not true that classical music isn't given multiple remasterings. a lot of the old majors have worked on extensive reissue programs over the years... RCA, Decca, Philips, especially EMI (which has remastered select "classic" releases two or three times in some cases since the '90s).

 

I've compared about a dozen classical reissues to remastered versions (DG Galleria vs DG Originals, Decca Classic Sound vs Decca Legends), but I never noticed a significant difference. Maybe because the first CD reissues were already well done.

The only label where the upgrade was really worth it was Sony, as many first CD reissues by CBS sound poor.

 

Classical still sounds good

I buy a lot of classical CD's, and have found no degradation of sound due to new mastering 'improvements.' The one label that has always been loud is Sony Classical, particularly in the early 1990's. Recent Szell and Bernstein re-issues, though, have resuscitated much of the clarity of those 60's recordings. Because I came to CBS classical LP's in the 70's, I assumed they were always constricted in dynamics and frequency spectrum. Only after buying some older gray-label pressings did I appreciate the quality of the original recordings.

 

I was at Borders the other day and I saw a bunch of EMI remasters of classical albums that mentioned something about noise shaping, so I put those right back on the shelf.

What are some good classical labels and CD series to look out for?

 

I don't think noise shape is a bad thing, on the contrary, if properly used, dither and noise shaping can give good results. Noise shaping is not to be confused with No-Noise and other noise reduction techniques.

 

i have to agree. i gave some of those EMI "ART" (Abbey Road Technology) CDs a shot. i haven't done really critical listening, but they sound okay.

 

Labels

Of the major classical labels, Decca's engineering is uniformly good. Philips is a good bet also. Harmonia Mundi is one of my favorites as well. I don't care for EMI's Abbey Road Technology. It sounds to me like the music is being passed through an expander, dropping in volume precipitously at fades and quiet passages. Of course, the 50's Mercurys and RCAs are legendary.

There are many smaller labels with great sound.

 

I do internal cartwheels when I find these and other original classical CD pressings - nothing gives me a warm glow like seeing the red and blue spine of a DECCA classical CD and finding the words "Made In West Germany" printed on the back

The main reason is that you can be sure with certain labels that an 80s CD pressing will be free from any of the DSP that plagues more modern releases. Also, there are some discs that are either not available anymore or even just have inferior artwork in their re-issued form.

Ultimately, I just want to avoid releases where digital NR, digital EQ, digital mixing etc.. has been applied to great analogue recordings. This is easy to do - you just buy old CDs

 

I prefer the older EMI CD issues. To me those EMI "ART" remasters sound like they have boosted highs, and the strings have a "glassy" sound.

 

Beware of some early 1990s Philips reissues, they're no-noised - they even carry the NoNOISE logo on the back.

 

i know what you mean. but i expected them to be a lot worse (since almost anything mastered at Abbey Road is complete garbage).

 

BIS and Chandos are amongst the best-sounding for new recordings.

 

I've a few EMI remasters with ART (Abbey Road Technology) and though sound OK, but the one piece that I have in original version sounds way better than the ART remaster (the Glyndebourne/Gui 'Marriage of Figaro', original version on 'Classic for Pleasure'). The ART version has the hiss and a lot of the life removed.
If you can find the original it is great.

Regards
13th Duke of Wymbourne

 

The same goes for the DG remasters in their "The Originals" series. Though far from perfect I prefer the earlier DG CD reissues from the 1980s.

 

The gold and black EMI "Art" releases make me feel ill just thinking about them - never heard a good one yet. Admittedly I gave up after only hearing a couple.

All I want done to analogue recordings for CD release is a simple A/D conversion straight to 16/44.1! This is the only way you get the involving sound captured on the original analogue tape onto a CD. Any other digital processing and the "magic" gets lost

 

I guess you're not buying any post-1995 CD-reissues then?

 

I've been ripping (EAC) my collection of nearly all-classical CDs to a music server I'm setting up for some months now, and I started with ones that I'd bought back in the '80s and early '90s. Nothing scientific here, but my impression is that the "peak level" figures quoted at the end of the rips of older discs in general are lower than on newer discs--say, in the 70% range rather than the 90% range. No sign in either case of the kind of compression that evidently afflicts popular releases, however.

I seem to remember reading complaints, a few years back, that newer classical recordings were being cut too "hot," raising distortion somewhat, but I don't remember when or details at this point. Way too much water under the bridge.

 

Pretty much

Apart from a very few exceptions - such as the Bee Gees "Studio Albums" box and some of Steve's releases.

If I buy anything that sounds messed with I take it back (eg the Move reissues)!

 

found, like new, in the bins today:

• Chopin - Etudes op. 10 & op. 25: Vladimir Ashkenazy [orig. WG w/ silver hub; w/ orig. sleeve art]
• Chopin - The Nocturnes: Vladimir Ashkenazy (two CDs) [orig. WG w/ silver hub in fatboy case]
• Chopin - Preludes and Impromptus: Vladimir Ashkenazy [orig. WG w/ silver hub]
• Schubert - Sonata in B flat/Wandererfantasie: Vladimir Ashkenazy [orig. WG w/ silver hub]

i was especially pleased to find the Nocturnes discs.

 

^You can now get the entire Ashkenazy Chopin set (13 Cds) from Amazon marketplace - new for approx $75. Hell of a bargain - I had previously bought all the works individually.

 

Many cycles are being re-issued in sets, with each CD in card sleeves. Besides being cheaper, they do save on space a lot.