The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    She's got killer looks…
    … and he's got killer's eyes!!
    And he's got neither! Pop music's own Droopy !!

    But this is beautiful, Ron knows how to highlight all the little musical nuances. And the lyrics, too. Here's the corrected pay-off of the song (the bridge leading to the falsetto "tears" line) as sung by him :
    "When you were just a child
    You cried the way the other children cried
    But how were we to know
    These tears that flowed were from a killer's eyes"

    Listening to Ron's hotel room version convinced me even more there's no sympathy whatsoever in this song, and no excuses. Just bewilderment. Ray takes the no excuse/no sympathy/no b******** certainty for granted. But then, he looks for whatever humanity there'd be to find in there : some passed, some left, some cliché, some fake, some complacent, some undecipherable… That's the song for me. And that's why I find it believable. As @ajsmith said, it's the rumination of someone (a neighbor, an old friend, a cousin perhaps), trying to make sense of something that doesn't make any sense at all. And in the end, all he sees is the white of the guy's eyes : he's left with his own unresolved rumination, still perplexed and stunned, wondering if those eyes could've already been "killer's eyes" long before the crime. Ray knows better than to attempt answering this question. Raising it is heavy enough, and much more disturbing.
     
  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    and that is the clincher....

    Any one of us could be that guy/girl. We all have that potential..... the killer almost always just looks like one of us... and that's the creepiest thing about the whole concept.
     
  3. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    Killer's Eyes

    I think this is perfectly sequenced as a slower burn after the first two fast-paced rockers. I am not familiar with Big Star at all.. I was trying to see what the muted guitar intro of this reminded me of, and I ended up with the intro to Right Here Right Now by Jesus Jones (1991). Which is also a rather political/heavy song/video?

    It's a rather dark, disturbing lyric, but I don't think it's sympathizing... I think it's more coming from... how were we to know? Why did you do that? What could we have done differently to help? But there is a bit of lightness in Ray's delivery, which could be a little off-putting... plus almost a light-hearted "to kingdom come" reference...

    Perhaps it's just because it uses a similar word/rhyme, but the "They say that you're a fanatic with a mission" recalls the "..and his selfish wife's fanatical ambition" line from Alcohol.

    I'm torn on some of the lyrical choices... I think "at least that's what they say" seriously dilutes what would be a great couplet: "Life means nothing to you, but it doesn't mean that you have the right to take life away."

    On the the other hand, I absolutely love this couplet as highlighted by @Fortuleo, which is such an illuminating and touching line: "But how were we to know, these tears that flowed were from a killer's eyes" It goes back to, what else could we have done? What is in our power, as a community?

    Overall, while it isn't a very sonically diverse song, there are enough swerves and lane-shifts within the guardrails of the song that make it an interesting listen and holds my attention.
     
  4. Brian x

    Brian x the beautiful ones are not yet born

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Killer's Eyes

    Yes, hearing Isn't it a Pity. Also some echoes of Stormy Sky. Even though Ray has sketched all kinds of people, from ordinary little Norman, to werewolves, to cross-dressers and fashion plates -- pleasant and unpleasant, self-satisfied and insecure -- even a guy who's evil -- this might be the first time he's presented us with a murderer.

    It's done well, quite delicately, even beautifully, with a good balance of compassion, bafflement, and condemnation.

    But musically it doesn't quite click for me. Not a skip track, but not a playlist number. The Ron Sexsmith version, however...
     
  5. stewedandkeefed

    stewedandkeefed Came Ashore In The Dead Of The Night

    Thank you for posting some Ron Sexsmith who is probably more popular in the UK than in his home country.
     
  6. stewedandkeefed

    stewedandkeefed Came Ashore In The Dead Of The Night

    As I listened to this today, I thought of Lennon's assassin. It is a pretty good song - a character study in song. It has a chill to it that I do not associate with the Kinks. I agree with @Fortuleo that there is a Lou Reed element to this. Lou was soon to write and record "The Gun" which I think covers similar ground though Lou switches points of view in his song.

    "Killer's Eyes" is very "of its time" musically. I haven't paid much attention to this song before because it certainly was not a regular set list inclusion at the time but I was pleased to have the live version from New York 1981 posted above.
    I like it though and it does cover some ideas that must have been going around in a rock star's head after such events as the Lennon and Reagan shootings where the shooters certainly had serious issues with the difference between fantasy and reality.
     
  7. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Short version:

    Big Star - early 70s power pop from Memphis who made two (or three) albums to total public indifference due to poor label distribution and promotion. Chris Bell was the driving force and vision of the band initially who teamed up with Alex Chilton for songwriting and recordings and was the producer in all but name in the studio.

    Their first album #1 Record was a true split collaboration in terms of songwriting pretty well split 50-50 though they operated like Lennon-McCartney bringing their own material in and having the other flesh out some parts. The songs here are credited mostly Bell-Chilton for this reason, they wanted to do this the way the Beatles did. #1 Record should have been a big hit but it was not to be.

    Bell was despondent and quit after the failure of #1 Record leaving Chilton to helm the band for their second album Radio City, which while different, was equally good and you obviously have more Chilton influence here though a few tracks were left over from the first album that Bell cowrote but demanded his name be removed.

    The third album (later titled Third) was not really a Big Star album at all but a loose collection of mid 70s Chilton studio work over a couple of years that was later compiled into an album by a record label and released under the Big Star moniker. This album is a totally different beast from #1 Record and Radio City. Chilton at his most darkest and self destructive which some folks prefer to the Big Star proper albums.

    There was also a posthumous Chris Bell album later released with his later mid 70s studio work compiled into an album called I Am The Cosmos.

    If anyone is interested, there is a two-fer CD with the first two albums on one disc and is pretty easy to find. The track that was posted earlier which the Killer's Eyes riff is from is called "Feel" and is from the first album and is a Bell composition. If you've seen "That 70s Show", the song played over the intro during the credits is a cover of a Chilton track on the first album called "In The Street". I would recommend starting with that two-fer if you want to check them out. I personally highly recommend this band for anyone here to check out who is unfamiliar with them.

    Personally I love all four of these albums/collections plus all the later box sets with sessions and outtakes. They've had a lot of acclaim over the last 20 years. Too bad they didn't see any of it in the 70s and in Chris Bell's case, his lifetime. They deserved much better.

    Well, that was longer than I anticipated but once you get started with these kinds of posts it's hard not to keep going into details and rabbit holes.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  8. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I'm fond of how the arrangement emphasizes the perplexed protagonist's state of mind, alternating gentle keyboard/synth with a pulse of ominous, biting guitar.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  9. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I appreciate the overview. I fall under the grouping of people who raise an eyebrow at these belated, after-real-time, critical darlings…but find your rabbit-hole explanation quite interesting.

    The first I heard of a Big Star song would have been Son Volt covering ‘Holocaust,’ a song that touched me deeply. I knew it was a cover but had no idea who Chilton or Big Star was. And then my big-time music buddy gave me Chilton’s ‘A Man of Destruction.’ He may have said Big Star but I wouldn’t have known who that was. All that stuck in my brain was ‘The Letter.’

    Sometime during my forum life I’ve taken a stab at a cursory listen. I think I like the song ‘Thirteen’ but can’t recall if I like the original or a cover. (By whom? I don’t know).

    Anyway, it’s a busy time with a new Drive-by Truckers and a new Wilco on the horizon…but at least you’ve made this intriguing!
     
  10. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    It's much appreciated! I've been collecting music for a long time but have little or no familiarity with so many of the artists that are named dropped here, which is always perplexing to me, I don't know if I'm the only one! If someone wants to fill us in on who Ron Sexsmith is that would be cool too, enjoyed that clip .... and maybe someday someone will actually come out and say what movie Fortuleo's avatar is from :D.
     
  11. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Really, Avid stewedandkeefed?
     
  12. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Big Star were the real deal.
     
  13. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    That John Wayne movie was called the Conqueror, where he played Genghis Khan. It's a notorious film because it was shot in the Nevada desert near the nuclear testing sites & nearly everybody involved eventually died of cancer:

    'The Conqueror': The John Wayne Film That Killed Nearly Half its Cast and Crew

    As for Big Star, I'm also a big fan of theirs and I also recommend getting the 2-fer CD of their first two albums as a starting point.

    As for Ron Sexsmith, he's a Canadian singer-songwriter who has put out a number of albums since 1995. His latest came out last year. You can see the videos of his songs, as well as his covers of other's songs, including the Kinks, on YouTube. I also recommend him to my fellow Avids.

    Another name that I would like to drop for my fellow Avids is Martin Newell, who under the name of Cleaners From Venus, as well as under his name, has been putting out home made pop music since the 1980s. His best known album is The Greatest Living Englishman, from 1993, which was produced by Andy Partridge. Again, you can many examples of his work on YouTube.
     
  14. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    "Killer's Eyes"

    I'd say Ray definitely borrowed this little riff from Big Star. Nice observation @Vangro. I think it's an odd choice for the third song. It sounds more like a song that should be closer to the end of the album. I've never been too impressed by this song. It sort of plods along, but it still manages a few hooks. I like the Dylan Davies part "Imagine her surprise when she saw you on the news. Reporters came around and asked for interviews." It's also a pretty good production with the guitar stabs and the addition of the piano after "What was going on inside your mind". The stripped acoustic version by Ron brings out the strengths, and lets you hear that this sounds exactly like a Ray Davies tune. An acoustic version wouldn't be out of place on Working Man's Cafe. The lyrics could even pertain to the time he was shot in New Orleans, which became the subject of a few of his later songs. I underestimated this song, and all of you helped me realize it.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  15. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    Big Star Third is a masterpiece. One of my most played songs is "Stroke It Noel". It's completely different than Radio City and #1 Record. I loved The Box Tops before I even heard Big Star, so I was quite shocked that it was the same singer. Those first two albums took longer to sink in, but the third instantly hooked me. @Zeki listen to the song "Kangaroo". It basically invents the sound Wilco experimented with on Yankee Hotel Foxtrot.
     
  16. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I think it should be the other way around because Chris Bell died in 1978 and "Feel" was written in the early 70s.
     
  17. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    You bet. Big were absolutely the real deal.

    I think you mean Ray borrowed it for his. Feel is from 1972 by Big Star and 1970/71 by Bell's earlier Icewater prior to Chilton joining.

    I forgot to mention that for the Third compilation, later releases had an outtake of Till The End Of The Day that Chilton recorded in a couple of different versions. We probably covered that back when we covered that song last year.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  18. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    ha ha. You are right. My mistake. I'm barely awake yet! I changed it to avoid any future Kinks Konfusion.
     
  19. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Thanks DISKOJOE! Crazy story about The Conqueror!
     
  20. LX200GPS

    LX200GPS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Somewhere Else
    And a member of the Royal Family who considered the only solution to those troubles was a united Ireland. If only the IRA hadn't been so thick there might have been a useful propaganda angle right there. Also, let's not forget the others killed in that blast, including the 15 year old local boy.

    As Ray wrote in The Informer some years later:

    "Beliefs aside, religion apart.
    Did you ever think about the sufferin' you caused
    And all the broken hearts"?

    And the answer to that question would be a firm 'No'.
     
  21. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Judging by their contemporary chart success, or rather the lack thereof, I would suggest The Kinks fall into this category to some extent. Nobody bought The Village Green Preservation Society in 1968/69 but look at it now.

    For a multitude or reasons, sometimes it takes years or decades for these things to become fully appreciated. Better late than never.

    Rabbit holes? I got rabbit holes...
     
  22. LX200GPS

    LX200GPS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Somewhere Else
    It wasn't available in London a mere three years after its release. I had to buy the US import. I'm guessing here but I don't think it was re-issued until sometime in the early 1980's. I know that wasn't the reason for poor sales but if it isn't available you cannot buy it.
     
  23. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Hmm…I was just about the laugh and reply, “good point!” But, no, I think rock fans have pretty much always known who The Kinks were. Maybe, like me (until 20 years ago), they had them tagged as a ‘singles band,’ but they’re in another category to Nick Drake and Big Star.

    :D I’m too busy with this thread, etc., to go down anymore. Having said that…I’m almost all the way through #1 album. Highlight is still ‘Thirteen.’
     
  24. pyrrhicvictory

    pyrrhicvictory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manhattan
    I was introduced to Big Star in the summer of ‘89 via an exceptional cover of Kangaroo by This Mortal Coil. My friend Rey snuck it onto a mix tape for me (a mix tape I not only still have, but still play) along with many 4AD artists. Rey was up at UMASS and sending back fevered reports of this great band playing at the Rathskeller. So he’d led me to my love of Pixies as well. Fittingly, always a promoter, he now works for some of his favorite bands as a music publicist at his agency in Hoboken. Thanks, Rey!
    Here’s our Ray, and friends, at a tribute for Alex Chilton, and the last time I saw Ray in concert. Note Robyn Hitchcock on hair dryer.

     
  25. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Yeah, of course, not exactly the same scenario, but my point was, it sometimes takes a long time for some things be it a song, an album, or a group to become a belated "critical darling". In the Kinks case, that album. In Big Star's case, the band itself. This time, and in both cases, it's warranted.

    Plenty of other belatedly praised things I still haven't warmed up to myself, so get that too. :)
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine