Help me pick a pair of speakers in the 3-4k range

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Bananas&blow, Dec 17, 2021.

  1. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Yes. I actually moved the Parasound out of the room also as it sits in the area left behind the passive radiator. Moved some record shelving back 2 inches. Did anything I could that gave them more room to breathe.

    I had previously described the treble as rolled off yet detailed. That no longer applies. The treble is extended and detailed and none rolled off. Not necessarily bright but not subtle at all. Lively.
     
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  2. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Yep, that sounds like they’re breaking in. You can dial in the brightness by adjusting toe in. They sound brightest pointed directly at you. Some people prefer crossing them a little in front of the listening position or toeing them out so they cross behind you. Little adjustments can make a big difference, since the horns are very directional. Depends on your room and preference for brightness.
     
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  3. NYC-Blotto

    NYC-Blotto Forum Resident

    Location:
    obvious
    Yea, it's really strange how some people don't 'get' or simply refuse to 'get' due to their hard melons just how much the actual room and the things in the room effect the sound of their speakers. They will argue that they don't need room treatment but keep spending endless dough on gear searching for something they will never attain until they actually deal with the room or the stuff IN the room. Room treatment is not 'bling' to them so they have heads as hard as ball bearings arguing the room is not the issue so they can keep buying more 'gear'. What a weird addiction this 'audio gear' is with some people. btw, it may be they are not getting more "broken in" as much as the room changes you made changed the sound.
     
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  4. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    If ever a speaker was made for listening to live Grateful Dead, it's these here Klipsch.
     
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  5. enfield

    enfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex UK
  6. Just Outlaw

    Just Outlaw Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Croatia
    I auditioned these and they are quite nice but unfortunately too big for my room.
     
  7. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I was encourages to do an update so here we are. The Fortes are good speakers. Sort of a hybrid between an audiophile speaker and a rock concert speaker. The passive radiator on the rear makes placement crucial and forces me to put mine well into the room to tame the bass. I don't really like them this far into the room and I think it looks odd. The Fortes are the most sensitive to placement of any speaker I've ever owned. This has bad points (far from the wall in my room) mentioned above and good points...you can really adjust the sound of the speaker to taste. The horns are brighter aimed right at your ear and rolled off if you aim them away from your ears. I like the ability to adjust the sound so much. It's not a small adjustment either. At times I've had the thoughts that the Fortes were too bright and other times too rolled off based simply on placement. I haven't had a speaker that changed its sound this much based on placement. I guess once you get them placed exactly how you like them to sound these factors don't really matter as once they are dialed in you just sit back and enjoy. They have a huge sound. I like them but I'm not in love with them just yet. If I don't end up keeping them its a reflection of my room not the speakers. The Heresy IV would be a better fit in my room but I need to decide if the Klipsch sound is for me.

    I mentioned upstream that I didn't like the sound of the KT77s but after emailing Cary and looking more into the biasing I realized I had them biased way too low. Now that I have them biased correctly they sound much better. They certainly have less bass than the KT88s which works well with the Fortes. They also seem to be working better with the Triangle Duettos. In fact, I finally found a tube pairing that works for me with the Duettos and is not so damn fatiguing. So the next 2 weeks I'm going to listen to this pairing and see if I like the sound enough to keep them.

    The Cary SLI-80 is a wonderful amp if the speakers aren't too power hungry. It has the tube magic and huge soundstage. It has a magic I have yet to hear from a solid state amp. Having said that the tube configuration is expensive and over time the cost of the amp is a real consideration. Dennis Had did a wonderful job designing the amp, but it's already has some significant repairs and may need more in the future. But I'm stoked to own a tube amp that displays the best qualities of a tube amp. It leave me wanting nothing in terms of sound quality.

    There is a part of me that is called back to the KLH 5's though. I haven't had them hooked up in weeks but they gave me a feeling of joy listening to music. I love the retro look and they are just fantastic on rock and roll and metal. They have that wonderful oomph of those old 10" woofers of the classic 70's speakers (original Advents and the like).

    At some point I'll make a decision and sell 2 of the above pairs. I do think earlier in the thread I got too caught up in the hobby and was a little obsessive. Chasing perfection as it were. While there is some fun in chasing that perfect sound, it also became a detriment to simply enjoying music. I've learned from it and hope to settle into a system I enjoy for a few years before changing gear again.
     
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  8. wownflutter

    wownflutter Nocturnal Member

    Location:
    Indiana
    I used to have a Jolida 302A that was running KT77's.
    It seemed about every year of so, I'd start to get the itch to upgrade my amp. I'd start browsing magazines and online reviews. It just wasn't moving me like it used to.
    Then I'd remember to check the bias.
    :doh:
    Each time, the bias had drifted off. Once I dialed them back in, all was well once again for about another year.
     
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  9. Cupids_bow

    Cupids_bow chillin like a villain

    Location:
    The OC
    Doh!
     
  10. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    The search has ended. The Fortes are the winner. One of the following or all 3 happened that made the magic sound appear:

    1) Speaker placement perfect ? (slightly overly toed in 31 inches from the back wall).
    2) KT77's broke in ?
    3) Midrange on the Fortes really opened up?

    I think it's a combination of all 3 but the last 5 days of listening have been fun. I don't listen to the rolling stones on my stereo anymore, I hang out with them while they perform in my living room. I've been chasing a certain quality of sound the last 5 months and I found it with the Fortes/Cary amp combo. There are over 100 hours on them and they have transformed in the way they sound. Sound is vibrant, alive, balanced. I know I've sounded like a madman the last few months but I know the magic in a system when I hear it. It wasn't there with my previous combinations I tried the last few months. Now I hear it. I've found myself smiling listening to my system the last few days. Sometimes laughing to myself at how good the sound is. I'm hearing albums and instruments and nuances previously missed.

    I had been wondering what all the fuss was about with Klipsch Heritage speakers. Now I am hearing it and enjoying it. Immensely. The KT-77's have tamed the bass. I just tried rolling in the KT88s and the bass was too much in my room again. So back in the KT77s go and the party has resumed. Sweet midrange. Perfect treble that is detailed and not the least bit fatiguing. The singer is dead center and in the room. Stoked that I didn't give up on the Fortes before the midrange broke in. The bass broke in after 30 hours or so. The midrange took a good 100 hours. Huge scale of sound. Wall of sound coming at me. Not sure if the KT77s took that long to break in. I'll know when I buy my next quad. Perfect is a dangerous word to use but it's how I would describe the current sound. The sound is just exactly right.

    I am not yet a believer in cables as this sound I'm describing is from my Oppo through amazon interconnects. Lol. So I suppose there is room for improvement. But I don't need to change anything right now. And I don't think I will for a long time. The only reason I would ever not recommend the Fortes to someone was if they didn't have enough room around them to allow them to breath. But the Heresy or Cornwall would work in such a situation.

    Thanks for everyone who contributed to my journey. I've learned a lot and I hope others have as well.
     
  11. Djohm

    Djohm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mi Casa

    I've enjoyed following your journey. Glad you found the right combo for you. Party On!!
     
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  12. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Congrats on finding your audio Nirvana. I for one would like to see a pic of this new-found love. The toe-in comment has me curious.
     
  13. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Heyyy, congrats! I was wondering how this was going to turn out for you. Glad you found the right balance. Now, can I interest you in this set of cables made from gold-filled elephant tusks?
     
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  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    congrats b&b!
    the forte iv is one of the handful of speakers that put a smile on my face at first listen, glad you were able to work them in!
     
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  15. CraigC

    CraigC Live It Up

    Location:
    LI, NY
    Good to hear man, I want to hang out with The Stones as they perform!
     
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  16. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    I have to admit thinking back to when the thread started, reading initial requirements, what equipment you've come from / own / tried, reading parts of your journey over the last few years............ I would just say I *never* would have predicted Forte's to be the end result at the start of the thread.

    Not because I don't like the Heritage line, in fact I'm running Cornwall IV's for the last few months, tried them for fun, and they surprised me how many boxes they ticked. Plus, I got pretty lucky I think on the amp match with them, it's a good combo. So they're here to stay for a while, they're doing the job admirably.

    More because there's a strong "anti-Klipsch" slant among audiophiles, a fair number on the board too :) --- and honestly sometimes knock is justified too due to the number of different product lines Klispsch has and had (ie - not all were good).

    Also because I know how discerning your ear is, and your initial focus on "imaging." I was thinking even a few pages back "no way he's ending up with Forte's!"

    Anyway, I learned myself the newer Heritage line holds its own... congrats and enjoy!! :)
     
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  17. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses?

    So if you want your speakers close to the wall you want rear porting correct?
     
  18. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    Heresy IV:)
     
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  19. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Thought I'd give a quick update and say that I'm still thoroughly enjoying the Fortes. Stoked on the sound and everything about it. Have no desire to change a thing. I don't think about the system I just think about the music. Been on a huge Grateful Dead bender and every Deadhead should own a pair of Klipsch. A combo made in heaven. Love the live sound of the speakers. I'm a Klipsch convert.
     
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  20. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Where were you on page 1? :D If I could go back I'd probably get the Heresy IV and this thread would be about 3 pages long. But the Forte IV's are perfect. I can't find a fault with them.
     
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  21. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I wouldn't have guessed Klipsch was the answer either or I would have purchased them first! Haha. Glad to hear you found a sound you like with the CW IV's. What amp are you running with them?

    I think any other version of the Klipsch Heritage IV line I would probably use a solid state amp but in my room the Fortes the bass is just thunderous but overpowering. Almost comical how much bass there is. I can't even use KT-88's in my room because the bass is too much. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like too much bass.

    I agree there does seem to be a bit of a divide when it comes to Klipsch in the audiophile community. I think many of the past reputations/criticisms of Klipsch may not apply so much to the current IV heritage line. "Shouty" "Too bright" "Too much coloration" "Heresy's have no bass" "Not audiophile" "Inaccurate" etc etc. None of these apply to my Fortes. Even some comments like "you need some real power to move the woofers" does not apply in my case. My 40 watt tube amp running KT77's, the bass is robust. I'm probably not getting 40 watts with the KT77s either. Klipsch has addressed some of the past criticisms and improved their sound without losing the sound that many have loved for years. No small feat.
     
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  22. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    No the opposite. Rear ported speakers near a wall often become boomy.
     
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  23. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I'll post a pic as soon as my new credenza arrives (3 months) and my system doesn't look like a cabling nightmare.
     
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  24. Clonesteak

    Clonesteak Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    I also have found the joy of The Grateful Dead on a pair of Klipsch speakers. I have the Heresy IV and live at the Fillmore East CD sounds amazing, all 4 CD’s of complete awesomeness.
     
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  25. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    At the moment (and for a few months now) I'm running the Accuphase P-4200. As you may recall, I also own an A21, ran that for a short bit, and also tried and Accuphase P-500L vintage amp. Also ran my Alpha 907MR Sansui integrated.

    The P-4200 is the match I was referring to. It's rated conservatively at 90W into 8 ohms, but testing has shown more like 125W. (Accuphase is conservative on their ratings, I know hard to believe in today's market).

    I've stated before that I "stumbled" on a good match with the amp, but the reality is it's Accuphase, and not too surprised it sounds good.... and why I run their preamp / line stage and phono pre too. (the phono pre has three inputs too, which is cool).

    Earlier on in the thread when you were proceeding ahead with the A21, I almost chimed in once or twice urging to try another amp - not because the A21 is bad, far from it, only as we all know it's amp / speaker synergy, and that can yield surprising results. But you went down that path anyway, so all good.

    All the way up to the moment I bought the Cornwalls, I was planning on buying the Forte's instead. In fact, when I went to Walt's where I bought them, I was there to buy Forte IV's.

    I had thought about the Cornwalls a number of times, actually preferred them, but it was the size that was the biggest issue - I could make them fit, but there weren't ideal without re-orging my room.

    The only thing that I was concerned about with the Forte's was that I had to keep them semi-close to the wall, and the rear radiator would probably benefit from more space. That's one advantage the Cornwall's had being front ported.

    When I was at the local dealer, they had both the Corwalls and Fortes side by side, and I just said "go for it" and bought the Corwall's. The salesman also knocked a grand off which helped. As stated, I've been both happy and surprised by the result.

    Klipsch is a brand that predominantly developed a "too bright" label due to some of their lower end models they've released in the past. Klipsch hits all price points across both audio and home theater, and they've sold millions of speakers - so with that comes reviews from all points on the spectrum. But due to the number of products, one label was never accurate across all lines / products, but it did leave a gap for many folks in the market for an "audiophile" speaker that would please even the more discerning. We've both seen the effects of that perception here on the board - many are not afraid to be vocal about stating negatives on Klipsch.

    Fact is the Heritage line has always been capable, properly driven. I do think they've taken another small step up with the IV's, as evidenced by the number of happy audiophile's with both recent Forte and Cornwall reviews. One can try and over-analyze the imaging, sound stage, tone, etc with these - but the bottom line is they strike a great balance between accuracy and realism, and when they sound good they can really hit the mark. Properly driven, of course!

    Are there better, more "accurate" speakers? Of course. But in their price point, I think the Heritage IV's hold their own. I almost bought more expensive speakers a number of times, but I would have been paying more for less square inches in woofer size in most cases :), and one of my requirements was no sub if possible. (which *is* possible though I know some beg to differ!) The Cornwalls definitely have enough low end, especially with the amp I'm using as it seems to take control of the woofers well.

    Cheers Pete, enjoy the Forte's... and there's nothing wrong with wanting to try something else some day!
     
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