The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    They sure captured the US market with Come Dancing which was decidedly English despite Ray's commercial motivations.
     
  2. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Even if sometimes most conservatively!
     
  3. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I think us Yanks could relate to the theme of dance hall days pretty easily. We went through a similar phase. I think ines like
    "He'd end up blowing all his wages for the week
    All for a cuddle and a peck on the cheek"

    are pretty universal.

    I think between Village Green and the 80s, Ray developed a talent for taking his very English experiences and packaging them in a way you need not be English to appreciate.
     
  4. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    "Our House" by Madness, which was also pretty English, was a US hit at the same time, due to the fact that it was also a good song which was backed up w/a great video that had MTV exposure. They were both beneficiaries of the so-called Second British Invasion" that occurred w/the success of Duran Duran, Culture Club, "Let's Dance" era Bowie and others.
     
  5. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I am not overtly disagreeing with you as one of your countrymen named Clive Davis did with his pushback & fear of Come Dancing being released in your market.
     
  6. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    True but I note they were also a far younger act with a more modern and youthful sound and style.
    ie: It wasn't ye olde English.
     
  7. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I understand. And you may know well better than I the why of Davis's position.

    Personally, I was quite surprised by the song's success at the time. But that was just because I didn't expect the dance hall sound to strike it big in a pop song in 1983, not because the sound seemed particularly English.
     
  8. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Here's the video for "Our House", Avid All Down The Line. Nothing says "ye olde English" like enough flat caps to look like an Andy Capp cosplay, braces, sweater vests and terraced houses, as well as hankies on the head. There's even someone in a schoolboy uniform Hank Marvinning w/a tennis racket!:

     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The Young Ones appearances were great.



    Rik - "Do you know Living Doll by Cliff Richard?"
    Suggs - "you 'um it... and I'll smash yer face in!"
     
  10. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  11. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I wonder for a 15 year old in 1983 if the dance hall days (plus their respective cultural import) were further removed from a young American's sensibility than their Brutish counterpart?
    Personally I don't know the answer though some here may have a far better inkling.
     
  12. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Good point.
    I guess age and energy aside the Madness clip shows some spirited irreverential mannerisms and the Kinks gentler clip is by turns sophisticated, romantic and deeply nostalgic for decades old history the Madness guys had yet to experience to write about.
     
  13. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Wasn't it acrually "Summer Holiday" Rick was threatened not to hum?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2022
  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I don't remember lol
     
    DISKOJOE and All Down The Line like this.
  15. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I see it is actually in the clip posted.
     
  16. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    The first sentence I wrote a few days ago concerning Come Dancing was “I don’t know why this was a hit” in the US in 1983. That statement had nothing to do with the quality of the song itself but was more a comment on the US public’s surprising approval and acceptance of what we Americans thought was an oh-so-British sounding song (and looking video) with such non-US centric lyrics, music, and at-the-time historical perspectives. The actual perspectives may have been similar on the surface in some respects but actually very different due to post WW2 realities between Europe and the US in the late 40s, the 50s, and into the 60s of which Ray was writing about. Of course, I had no clue of this stuff in 1983 as a 14 turning 15 year old teenage know it all. And neither did Americans of any age in general.
    Actually I do know why Come Dancing was a hit and it had nothing to do with the American public’s idealized nostalgia of another country’s or continent’s past whether real or imagined.
    The answer is much simpler and can attributed to the influence of MTV and the power of the very new at that time viral video which we continue to see to this day with social media. In the US in 1983 MTV was the big time viral media influencer. The so-called self-fulfilling prophecy. It didn’t work every time but it sure helped. As we know by this point in their career a good song and performance are no guarantees of a damn thing but visual media gave them some exposure that radio alone could not deliver. This is true of all bands/artists of the era, of course.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  17. Rockford & Roll

    Rockford & Roll Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midway, KY
    Well, I mentioned yesterday that my parents loved the video and the song. They could certainly identify with the dance hall memories. It also occurred to me that this song ties in to our American fascination with British culture. Downton Abbey and others come to mind.

    Here are a couple of pieces about Joyland, a Lexington, KY park that my parents and many of their friends grew up visiting. It had amusement rides and a dance hall.

    Joyland Park | ExploreKYHistory

    Joyland Park, 1950 | ExploreKYHistory
     
  18. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Yes but i take it they didn't buy the 45?

    Edit: I trust the 4th picture down on the link was a fire and they didn't have an "explosion" ride?
     
  19. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I take it that Don't Forget To Dance received regular MTV airings and I believe Arista pulled out all the stops so why do you think it didn't go bigger?
     
  20. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    There's also a bit of Ray 's ambivalence in "Our House" when the chorus goes "you got to go away", meaning that it was great living there but there is a time that you have to leave.

    Also, both Avids Michael Streett and Rockford and Roll are correct on why "Come Dancing" was a US hit. The video was beautifully done (Ray was video savvy ever since the 60s, as the video for "Dead End Street" shows; if there was a MTV in 1967, it could have been a US hit) and was shown on MTV at a time when the format was still relatively new and open to videos of all types.

    Also, as the popularity of Downton Abbey (the Upstairs, Downstairs of the 21st Century), as well as the various UK mystery/detective shows on PBS and the Acorn Channel show, that Americans still hold a fascination w/British culture and see a British accent as a mark of sophistication. I was at a radio station once and saw a demo tape from someone who called himself a "Professional Englishman" who offered himself to do voice work for commercials and such.
     
  21. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Duke Ellington also played the ballrooms of the Salem Willows, which is right down the street from me. The ballrooms are gone, but the park remains:

    Salem Willows - SalWiki

    Also, Rockford & Roll, you'll be happy to know that one of the CDs I picked up this week was the Everly Brothers, Walk Right Back: The Warner Brothers Years 1960-1969.
     
  22. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    I have no facts to support this, this is just my impression. As an 18-year-old, surrounded by people in the same age group, and as fans of the harder rocking bands, and taking into account Avid Sreett’s (I believe) correct analysis that MTV was having an enormous influence over what our age group was listening to, I believe the following:

    Most of the hard rock bands followed a pattern with their video releases. First release that hard rocking song as the first video to maintain your rock cred. Next, follow it up with the softer, lighter-waving ballad. Then come back with another kick-you-in-the-face rocker. It seems like if there was going to be a second valid, that was always saved for the forth video.

    I think the problems the Kinks had (Popularity wise) started with this album. First off, as we can see even from the avid Kinks Avids on this thread, State of Confusion (the song) was one of their weaker attempts at a balls-out rockers. They then followed it up with the obligatory softer sounding song and had their big hit. To follow the pattern and thus to appeal like headbangers like me, the next video should’ve reestablish them as kick ass rockers. I can only speak anecdotally from amongst my friends, but following Come Dancing, which we saw as the their rightful shot at the pop charts, but not a song we would seek out, with an even softer song like Don’t Forget to Dance definitely made the rock fans like me feel like we had been kicked to the curb so that Ray and the boys could chase the money.

    It’s a shame because I think that these two hits on the pop charts in particular caused the drop off and sales which occurred with the next album, Word of Mouth. I know I didn’t buy it for that reason, even though I thought Do It Again and Living on a Thin Line were particularly great songs and nice returns to form.

    There is no science here, just an anecdote from one fan who loved and bought every album immediately upon release from Misfits through GTPWTW. I don’t think I realized it at the time, but I suspect that the weaker lead rock song from SOC followed by the release of two ballads in a row caused me to spend my hard earned dollars on other, usually newer bands with bigger guitars!
     
  23. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Don’t Forget To Dance as a video didn’t get anywhere near the amount of airings and exposure as Come Dancing.
    Also, and remember this is coming from a 14 year old mindset at the time (me), but I think it sums up what happened.

    Geez, another song about dancing?

    @markelis describes the mindset of a good chunk of the population here at the time.
    MTV was very powerful from the get go at that time but Don’t Forget To Dance was just too similar in style and title to the hit they just had. Despite the quality of the album and the momentum the band had been building for the last few years, in hindsight this seems to be the jump the shark moment.
    One song and video about nostalgia and dancing from an old band could work as it very well did. A second consecutive song and video mining the same territory proved to be asking too much of the public and it changed the perception of the band in the younger generation’s mind. Just like that they were now an old band and young listeners moved on.
    Perhaps Clive Davis was right if he said it was a problem if Come Dancing was a hit.

    What’s so ironic about the above is that from my own personal perspective, Word Of Mouth is where I came on board in the first place. I’ve said in other posts about how out step I was with my peers at the time by shunning the hair metal of the day and going swimming in the then decade old topographic oceans of progressive rock, and here I am again in 1984 getting into an old band’s contemporary work after most folks have jumped ship.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  24. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    MTV seems like, somewhat, a blessing and a curse ...

    I never actually had MTV, but of course as the video era really took off there were plenty of one and two hour music shows popping up on the tv, because the people were interested and it was good for advertising dollars.... but the idea of MTV, to me at least was a great thing. The idea of a 24/7 show playing music videos and concerts that could well expose more bands to the public seems in theory to be the perfect promotional tool....

    It seems the downside is that, video being the focus, in many instances the music became a soundtrack to the video, and with videos being expensive pursuits, instead of opening up exposure for less financially flush bands, it somewhat closed the door on them. Even if they managed to make a video, it wasn't going to look like Russell Mulcahy's latest mini-movie lol

    I suppose I had envisaged a composite show of some video's, in studio performances and televised concerts and such, as that was the kind of thing I had been used to up to that point.... but as far as I can tell, and again, I never saw it, so correct me if I'm misdirected, it seemed like MTV may have been the format/formula that destroyed radio in the mid-late eighties, in the senseless repetition of a batch of songs .... over and over

    I'd be interested in the thoughts of folks that actually saw the whole thing unfold in the US.... We had an MTV clone, or franchise, in Australia, and it seemed a bit hit and miss to me.....
     
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The interesting thing about Madness, to me at least, was the whole "nutty boy" image worked for and against them... It seems many folks failed to appreciate the fact that the guys were writing great songs..... and instrumentals, but the idea that they were just some silly guys, making silly videos, seemed to leave them in a situation where they just weren't taken particularly seriously as a band.... but without the videos the music itself was excellent... and even though the lyrics may have been somewhat tongue in cheek, they still had a serious aspect to them.... ala Shut Up, My Girl etc .... It seems the thing that helped them get lots of exposure, was also the thing that stopped them from being considered one of the great bands of the eighties, in many ways.
     

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