The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    I don’t disagree that you’ve presented a compelling sequence of circumstantial evidence to the jury. I saw all those things too but I saw them differently to you. This could be a good example of the Rashomon effect. I’m even more convinced than I was earlier that the father is benign and that those sexualised moments were the “daughter is a woman” moments seared in his memory when he’s thinking about rapists on the loose and seeing other young women by themselves.
    My interpretation of the evidence deviates from the literal presentation of that evidence in the movie. I would believe your argument if we were only talking about a video clip for a song, where there’s little room for complexity, but this is a movie with arty intent. If the jury deciding the truth of the matter were made up of film makers and songwriters I think my case would have a good chance of success. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  2. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Lots of great comments about today's section of the movie - not sure I have much to add to what's already been said! Other than the second line of the song "does it ring a bell?" - we see the emergency alarm on the train, as though the old lady is thinking about pulling it. I'm going with the idea that the traveller doesn't actually look anything like we're seeing him - we are seeing inside his head where he thinks he looks like the picture in the paper.
     
  3. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    On the other hand, the series of girl photos could also be a gallery of the traveler's victimes.

    I'd love to read the original script!

    I hope we'll have some clues from the movie guys here, like Avid @Brian x . I have very little notions of how a film is made, I'm only beginning to look into it, I always prefered to remain the naïve spectator. But I had the opportunity this winter to appear as an extra in a short and I was very impressed by the rigid hierarchy on the set, and also by the role of the cinematographer. I guess a lot of the professional aspect of the movie comes from this Roger Deakins guy who seems to have become famous afterwards in the industry. But it's not enough: the writing is good to, but most of all the editing must have been a really tight affair, and I wonder if Ray was involved and how far.
     
  4. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Missing Persons

    I am surprised that no one had mentioned the morgue up to this point as I had just assumed it was indeed very clear.
    My impression is that this is the travellers worst fear (his daughter being reported dead) though a small part of me won't fully discount that this may have actually happened.
    Again this song really should be "Going Solo" on this film and soundtrack and not also on Word Of Mouth unless perhaps it is included there in a starkly different presentation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That sounds very feasible to me.
     
  6. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    (Up to this point in the film) that type of jury might be your only chance. :D I am a Midsomer Murders aficionado so know very well the sleight of hand a film script can conjure up…so I don’t automatically assume that the lead actor is the rapist (plus I went on a mini Hitchcock binge several months ago).
    However, most juries would unquestionably throw away the key when it comes to this chap’s father-daughter relations. And I would suggest that this is what Ray is deliberately setting up. There’s nothing subtle or gray about it. It’s a 5-alarm fire as far as child protective services would be concerned (if privy to this).
     
  7. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    A few films Roger Deakins went on to make:

    Sid and Nancy
    Shawshank Redemption
    Fargo
    Kundun
    The Big Lebowski
    The Hurricane
    No Country For Old Men
    Doubt
    Sicario

    And dozens more of really well known and acclaimed films. He worked a lot with The Coen Brothers. A pretty impressive resume, and this little Ray film was one of his first.

    I went to film school for a year and was able to write and direct a short film while I was in school. It was silent and all shot on film. I added all the music and sound effects and even wrote and performed the music for it. It was great fun! I should have stuck with it, and pursued it more. I'm certainly not a part of the film industry like @Brian x. I'm still working on a screenplay from 20 years ago. Maybe one day I will finish it and sell it for a million dollars. :)

    I still have not had time to watch all of this film, so I cannot comment on it yet. Everyone here is doing a fantastic job of trying to break it down! This thread continues to impress me everyday.
     
  8. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Q. Could an Avid please remind me which page the "fan made" soundtrack is on?
     
  9. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    I don’t see a die cut variant on Discogs for the Percy pic disc, so probably not.
    They go through the effort of calling out the original textured sleeve on the RSD sticker.
     
  10. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

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  11. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Wow that is quite the list! Wasn’t aware of that.
     
  12. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Speaking of movies, I just got back from seeing the new Elvis film w/my Elvis fan friend and his missus tonight. I enjoyed it a lot and it did present the essence of his life and career even though the film glossed over certain aspects.
     
  13. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I was just looking at the IMDB page for the actor that plays The Traveler, Kenneth Colley, and apparently he’s one of the few or only actors to play both Jesus and Hitler. Therefore, perfectly cast for this ambiguous role in Return To Waterloo. :D

    The movie he played Jesus in was Monty Python’s Life of Brian. He also had a recurring role as one of Darth Vader’s Death Star henchmen in the Star Wars movies lol.
     
  14. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    Yep, they did well to cram 42 years of extraordinary life into 2.5 hours. I really liked that they included actual Elvis footage for the ending as well. And a great Little Richard scene!

    Now, I wonder what a Kinks biopic could look like!!
     
  15. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Julien Temple was going to do one back in 2015, but there’s no news since then:

    The Kinks biopic in the works from director Julien Temple
     
  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Terrence Hill and Bud Spencer :)
     
  17. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    You're welcome
     
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  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Sold Me Out,

    video track starts at 27:30

    I always knew that they'd get me somehow sooner or later,
    But with a bullet in the head, a knife in the back,
    Not a pocket calculator.
    Sorry mister, you're all wiped up,
    You're all washed up,
    Sold you out.

    Got no dreams, got no ambition,
    Can't decide, 'cause there's no decision,
    Got no claim to any position,
    Can't compete with the competition.
    You're always complaining,
    It's so depressing,
    But if you're old enough,
    Start to confess it.
    You say, you sold me out,
    To get a better deal for yourself,
    You sold me out,
    And now we want some of your precious wealth,
    Because you sold me out.
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out.

    You sold me out,
    To get a better deal for yourself.
    You sold me out,
    And now it's every man for himself.

    Work all your life, put the money in the bank,
    Sign on the dotted line.
    Try to draw it out, the joke's on you,
    Put up the empty sign.
    Sorry mister, we're all sold out.

    Sold me out,
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out.
    You, I'm talkin' to you.

    You sold me out,
    To get a better deal for yourself.
    You sold me out,
    And now we want some of your precious wealth.
    And sell you out,
    Like you sold me out.
    Are you in so deep, that you can't get out?

    Got no dreams, got no ambition,
    Can't decide, 'cause there's no decision,
    Got no claim to any position,
    Can't compete with the competition.
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out,
    Sold me out.
    (repeat)

    Written by: Ray Davies
    Published by: Davray Music, Ltd.

    So the kids have sat across the aisle from our guy and they have their ghetto blaster and Sold Me Out starts playing....

    They are obviously disrupting and intimidating the other passengers with the style of their presence.

    We have the guy who seems to be the leader of the trio of youngsters staring at the people across the aisle, which includes our guy...
    The three people opposite our guy are obviously a little uncomfortable, but it's one of those scenarios where nobody will address the situation. Everybody stares blankly as if nothing is happening.

    Then we have our guy in a doorway seemingly greeting people.... he looks to see if anyone else is coming and heads inside himself.
    Our guy on the train looks down at a piece of paper in his hand, and then we move to a scene where he is dealing with the people who he was greeting in that doorway, and there is a suitcase full of trinkets.... It appears they are signing a piece of paper or something... Is this the paper that was in his hand?

    We have the kids singing the chorus at the passengers, and then move back to our guy signing papers with the Middle Eastern looking guy. We have had signs saying Sell Houses, so we assume the Middle Eastern guy is buying a house.

    We have the kids continue to somewhat threateningly sing the chorus, and we see that our guy is quite chuffed with having sold the house via a series of different shots...

    We get a shot of the daughter, with some guy, going into a house/apartment that it looks like they may have bought.... synchronicity?

    We see the kids from the train walking around the streets, laughing at the suit in the window that our guy was admiring.
    The kids are seen in the window of the shop with bargain tags on them.

    Then all the passengers on the train are seen as sort of mannequins with sold and bargain stickers on them... I guess the implication being our ability to work is somewhat of a commodity and some are sold, and some are still for sale at bargain prices.... due to minimal value? lol

    At this point our guy goes into a sort of dream sequence and starts smashing the kids with his briefcase, knocking their plastic dummy heads off in frustration.
    He also smashes the businessmen opposite him and the song ends with a mannequin's head rolling across the floor.

    Our guy quietly sits back in his chair and we move to the outside shot of the train at the station and some older ladies moving towards and getting on this train.
    Oddly the train takes off while the door is still open and jolts the ladies into their seats. Then it slams on the brakes again... hmmm curious.

    We see the old lady in the chair, and the female with the kids says essentially I hope they kill me before I get like that... referring to the old lady .... ahhh the ignorance of youth....
    She picks up the newspaper, and one of the kids says "I think he looks like my dad" referring to the picture of the "rapist"
    The girl says, "well I think he's sexy" and looks at our guy.
    The other guy with them, who appears to be the ringleader, has a look at the paper and says "you know what i'd do with a guy like this. I put them up against the wall and I'd blow their bloody 'eads off"

    The train rolls on ...

    The girl takes off her jacket, wiggling and writhing as if to be suggestive, and starts eating an apple. Then gets up to go to the bathroom, and our guy gets up and follows her.
    She pulls him in by the tie and starts kissing him, then spits his mouth away and makes a blearghh noise, and walks away.

    Our guy turns on the tap and sees his wife in the mirror, and then his daughter.
    Then wipes his mouth and goes back to his seat
    As he's walking back to his seat, we hear what he thinks the passengers are thinking, which further points to the idea that most of this is in his head... and did the bathroom scene actually happen...
    The ringleader combs his hair and then pretends it's a gun and mock shoots our guy.

    The train rolls on.... into the next song

     
  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Sold Me Out.

    Again I'm not sure if this is different or not to the Word Of Mouth version, but it is a little shorter I believe.

     
  21. stewedandkeefed

    stewedandkeefed Came Ashore In The Dead Of The Night

    I listened to both versions of "Sold Me Out" this morning and they are essentially the same recording - the edit may be different but it is the song as played by the Kinks on Word Of Mouth. I have not watched the video in full yet (been catching up on 1982-1984 live Kinks) so I have little idea of the context in which this is used in the video. I cannot remember specifically what I said about this song when it came up in the Word Of Mouth discussion but I imagine my response would have been similar to my response this morning - hey, it is revved-up Kinks and that is in my wheelhouse so I enjoy it.
     
  22. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    A lot of remarkable observations in the last couple of days! I loved @ARL’s “ladder” one, and all the theories about the movie being an illustration of the songwriter’s creative process, as based on the meta precedent of Waterloo Sunset. We return to that place again, we return to that observational stance and a new piece of work emerges. And this time around, it’s not “cinematic” but… cinema.
    Today, we get the punks and I’ll admit liking them. I like their faces, I like their attitudes, caricatures and all, they still manage to convey that sense of being out of control. I think Tim Roth’s excellent but the other guy’s great as well, with a bit of a young Ewan McGregor look to him. Today’s scene will no doubt support the “it’s in the character's mind” theory. Not only regarding the beating of the mannequins, but the important shot at 29’30’’ where we see one of the punks accompanied by the traveler’s daughter. She’s on his mind, and this shot proves once and for all that what we see is free associations in the traveler’s mind, as he journeys from the suburbs to the city, contemplating fragments of his (normal) life and (angst-inducing) aspects of society. The movie’s definitely following his “train of thought”. Pun intended : that's its whole concept and structure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Oct 1963 - Nov 1966 -
    Apr 1967 - Feb 1970
    Nov 1970 - Jun 1976
    Feb 1977 - Dec 1983


    Album flow chart

    Live In Frankfurt in 1984

    Nov 1984 Word Of Mouth
    Do It Again - video - live 84 - live 87 - SNL - interview
    Word Of Mouth - SNL - live 84
    Good Day - live 84 - 12"
    Living On A Thin Line - live 84 - Dave 2001 - Sopranos
    Sold Me Out
    Massive Reductions
    Guilty - live 89
    Too Hot - single
    Missing Persons
    Summer's Gone - Full length
    Going Solo - original album edit

    The Dave songs up to this point

    Kompilations part 4 - 1984

    The Arista Years

    Kompilations Part 5 - 1985
    extras - 69, 73, 77
    Supersonic Rocketship alt mix
    Celluloid Heroes mono
    Moving Pictures alt mix

    Interview

    Magazines - 2 - 3 - 4

    Jul 1985 Return To Waterloo - documentary - Fan Soundtrack - Movie
    Intro
    Return To Waterloo - alternate - info - promo video
    Ladder Of Success
    Going Solo

    Missing Persons
    Sold Me Out

    The Great Lost Kinks Movie -Village Voice 1985

    Kinks live TOTP 1994

    2001 Dave Davies Fragile
    Violet Dreams


    Dave Creeping Jean live 2004

    2005 Thanksgiving Day Ray live on Conan Obrien

    Oct 2018 Dave Davies - Decade - interview
    If You Are Leaving (71)
    Cradle To The Grace (73)
    Midnight Sun (73)
    Mystic Woman (73)
    The Journey (73)
    Shadows (73)
    Web Of Time (75)
    Mr Moon (75) - Why
    Islands (78)
    Give You All My Love (78)
    Within Each Day (78)
    Same Old Blues (78)
    This Precious Time (78)

    Rob Kopp has made his 1999 Kinks discography 'Down All The days Till 1992'

    US Chart Stats
    The Music Industry Machine

    Mick Avory
    Pete Quaife - interview - Kast Off Kinks - I Could See It In Your Eyes - Dead End Street
    Rasa Didzpetris Davies
    John Dalton
    John Gosling
    Jim Rodford
    Ian Gibbons
    Andy Pyle
    Gordon Edwards
    Clive Davis

    Bob Henrit
     
  24. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    The way Roth delivers that “blow their heads off” line with half-grin, half scowl is chilling, especially since we just saw the mannequin head rolling across the floor. The punk is actually capable of it, unlike the Traveler who can only fantasize.

    There is some slick editing when the actors are swapping in and out with mannequins, I suppose this is showing us the Traveler’s alienation from the rest of society, who in this moment to him are only show room dummies, empty masks.

    The toilet scene is one of the better ones in the film. There’s a great shot where the frame is divided into thirds: the Traveler, the Girl, and the word Toilet on a black door; and it’s effective the way the camera gives us the Traveler’s point of view as he walks down the long, narrow, moving corridor - getting a flash of the girl before she disappears at the other end of the car. The aftermath is fantastic; two, quick cuts show us his imagining his wife’s reaction, then thoughts of his daughter filling him with shame - and I really like the way we jump from his imagination into the points of view of the other passengers, and what he imagines they would think of this transgression. So we have the artist imagining the Traveler imagining what the passengers are thinking about this imaginary scene.
     
  25. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    “Sold Me Out”: A great, punky song which is used to great effect in the movie to illustrate the feeling that the Establishment has sold England’s birthright and traditions for the porridge of money, symbolized by the image of The Traveler selling a posh house to a group of Arabs. It was interesting to see The Traveler go to the loo to get a sexual kick from the punk girl only to have her spit the apple in his face. It’s almost like she wanted to get him in a sleazy position in order to punish him for his thoughts. Another scene which I thought interesting was one of the punks telling the ticket taker that he didn’t know how to read as a response to being berated for smoking and then being shown reading a book. Just another incident in what I sometimes think of as being a jolly train ride with Ray Davies.
     

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