Let's Talk Technicolor: 2-Strip, 3-Strip, Everyone Strip

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, May 3, 2022.

  1. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    No, they can fix that digitally now. It takes time, but it can be done: they pin-register each separate color matrix during the scan, then once they're stable, superimpose each one over the other (often in Nuke), and painstakingly align it in case the images are slightly different sizes. No overlap, no misalignment, no seams showing.

    As I've said before, the black layer (the 4th strip) added the soundtrack and a tiny black edge to high-contrast parts of the image to "lock" the 3 images together. One obscure book that goes into this trick in depth is this one:

    Color Cinematography
    (1951 edition)
    by Adrian Cornwell-Clyne
    https://www.amazon.com/Colour-Cinematography-Adrian-Cornwell-Clyne/dp/B0000CI1FZ

    I posted my review of the 4K Technicolor Singin' in the Rain elsewhere, and I thought it generally looked and sounded terrific.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  2. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I'm sure they can fix it digitally, but that cost bucks. Take an outfit like Kino Lorber. They've stated many times that they don't have the budget to fully restore films like these. But they can snag the best print and scan it well, do some rudimentary cleanup, otherwise these releases are the best they'll ever look in HD. Not many films get a rescan/restoration after they've been released once, unless it's an extremely popular movie, like Singin' In the Rain.

    But that's cool. It's the nature of business. Supply and demand.
     
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  3. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Just watched "Cobra Woman" on BD yesterday and was dumbstruck on the sharpness, color and detail even on my 720p Samsung. The scenes look so real but still having a dream like quality I don't see in modern movies. Kind of a parallel universe quality.

    The trailer of this movie in the BD Bonus section has pronounced flat contrast and muted colors. Just wondered if this was what Kino Lorber might have worked from as the best available print.

    Just a side note but these old restored 3 strip Technicolor movies have a quality that's not conveyed on the cover of the BD, so I have to wonder from a marketing sense that maybe Kino Lorber should put the best looking still of the movie as the front cover. The long list of cover art displayed on Amazon of movies from the same era have the with same crappy covers makes them all come across as cheap, cheesy, low budget films.

    Both BD covers of Garden Of Allah and Cobra Woman wouldn't have made me buy them if I hadn't heard about them in this forum which I'm assuming is a pretty small audience.
     
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  4. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Here's Cobra Woman BD on my eyeball calibrated Samsung 720p HDtv. Just gorgeous color for 1943. This does not look like a cheep, cheesy low budget film.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I've seen a lot of trailers on KL discs and none of them look restored, or even from the same source. But maybe. It's a good question that I might ask on Blu-ray.com in the KL thread. They have an employee in that thread who is really good about answering questions.

    Interestingly enough, the covers you see are from original theatrical posters, or other period marketing material. Some are reversible, so you can see alternate vintage posters and such.

    You're right, though; some of them look low budget, but I think I'd rather have the vintage art, rather than something contemporary.

    That said, as an example, sometimes I don't know what to think, because I should be getting my 4K UHD disc of Kubrick's Paths of Glory (1957), this week from KL. The cover art is a pretty garish original theatrical poster of Kirk Douglas. I don't like it, especially for such a monumental film, but in the end it's the content that matters. It's a good time to be a Kubrick fan, with 3 early titles coming out in 4K from KL. It's highly doubtful that there will ever be other 4K releases of these titles.
     
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  6. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    I bought 5 BRs during Moviezyng's recent Warner Archives sale:
    The Pirate
    She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
    Beau Brummell
    Ivanhoe
    Zigfield Follies

    So far, I've only watched The Pirate and while the story itself was kind of blah to me, the restoration is beautiful.
     
  7. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Yeah. :laugh: I think The Pirate is worth it for Gene Kelly's numbers, alone. He kills it during the long-ass "Nina," section, as well as his first ballet for the screen. I'm not dissing Judy Garland; I'm just a big Kelly fan...and yes, the restoration is grade A+.

    I'd like to read your impressions of Ziegfeld Follies (1945), when you get around to it, both for the PQ and the numbers.
     
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  8. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    It's kinda' funny how an improvement in resolution and color gamut to an old technology as TV should give rise to a resurgence in an interest in old ass movies I would never have paid a ticket to see at the theater now appears to make them potential collector items. I hope these companies that restore such old color films at least make a profit for their efforts.
     
  9. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I think about that, too. Kino Lorber, Criterion, Shout Factory, et al, seem to be making money, or they wouldn't be as popular as they are, churning out loads of discs. But we don't see their bottom line, so it's difficult to say.

    WAC, arguably the best of them all, did have a big layoff at one point, to my understanding, so that was a bad sign. They bounced back, though. It should be said that WAC's budget is probably the largest and/or they could be saving money on their restorations, because most of their work is done in-house.

    Yeah, I worry a little about things like that, but right now I'm just enjoying the ride for as long as my purchasing power lasts.
     
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  10. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Amen brother!
     
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  11. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Hope you'll pardon me but I haven't kept up with all the names of film restoration companies you've listed but am I to assume WAC stands for Warner Archive Classics?
     
  12. Bob Casner

    Bob Casner Senior Member

    Location:
    Venice, California
    WAC = Warner Archive Collection. I say this is as much a guarantee of quality as the mastering of audio releases by Steve Hoffman.

    I’ve been supporting these efforts by buying directly from Kino Lorber ( for their 3-strip releases) and WAC ( when they used to have their online store): “voting with my wallet.” Now that Warner is primarily using Amazon I order on release date which should increase their take - I can’t usually pre-order these because they’re almost always priced under $25 and so don’t qualify for free shipping without Amazon Prime.
     
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  13. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Moviezyng has taken up the old 4/44 dollars sale that WAC used to have only it's 4/$49 + around $6 shipping which brings each disc to around $13 apiece. I know Amazon puts WACs on sale at sometimes insane prices but it's a piecemeal approach. So far, Moviezyng has had 2 of these sales this year.
     
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  14. Bob Casner

    Bob Casner Senior Member

    Location:
    Venice, California
    Manapua,
    Yes, I’ve seen those - the thing is, I’ve almost always already bought those, with very few exceptions. Occasionally I’ll see something mentioned in a forum post, here or elsewhere, or see something on one of the free over-the-air channels here in the L.A. area and “play catch-up.” Case in point: over at blu-ray.com someone mentioned how spectacular the WAC restoration of “The Great Race” is - I’ll be adding it to my next Amazon order this coming week.

    Reasons to be cheerful:
    On a recent podcast (theextras.tv) WAC majordomo George Feltenstein said that more 3-strip titles from the 1930s and 1940s were coming, that there was a bit of a “logjam” at available movie film scanners, and there was only so much nitrate film they were allowed to have on site! I’m looking forward to their next announcement of upcoming releases (this coming week?)
     
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  15. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    I've been playing catch-up so these sales are greatly appreciated. The fact that they said what they did on that podcast is great news indeed instead of the usual "physical media is dead" warnings. As for The Great Race, the print they show on TCM looks great so I have no doubt the BR disc is the same.
     
  16. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Some recent Three -Strip Technicolor thrills:

    Sampson & Delilah (1949) ~ This is kind of a rare delight from Paramount, as this BD really shows off the three-strip chops. There are zero registration issues, you just sit back and enjoy the picture. It's a feast for the eyes. Now, the color pallette is a bit muted because of the middle eastern desert settings, but that's just the way the film is. It's not a Technicolor issue.

    When I say, "Enjoy the picture," that doesn't mean it's a stupendous movie. This was kind of a light film for Cecil B. DeMille, but boy is Victor Mature entertaining. He's not really good, which made me chuckle. A lot! But the movie stays fairly riveting. I liked it.

    The Phantom of the Opera (1943) 4K UHD ~ This is an interesting release. I had asked if there was a known movie that used digital tools to realign misregistration issues, and this is one. It's the same scan as the BD, but with the 4K release, the matrices are perfectly aligned. I don't think that the source was the OG negs. I heard tell that the source was a clean interpositive, but I can't vouch for that

    Regardless, the HDR really makes that Technicolor glow...but not in an unnatural way. It looks very good with loads of extra detail and a general stability that 4K gives. It appears amazing, which is more than I can say for the film, itself. There might be a slight push to red on the UHD presentation, but it looks about that way on the Blu-ray, too. It's difficult to tell, because the lighting often gives an orange or red tint, so I'm tempted to say it was made that way, but with some caution. It's a lovely image, though. Boy, they were wearing a ton of makeup for this film! In 4K that really comes out.

    The Adventures of Don Juan (1948) ~ Of course this is a WAC release, so expect brilliance or perfection. It's pretty damn close to perfection. @Steve Hoffman told us about this release earlier in the thread, and it lives up to the PQ assessment.

    You know, Flynn does a good job. There were a few times in the film where he looks a bit tired, maybe a little older, but mostly, despite his health and drug problems, he still cuts a dashing character.

    Most of the supporting women in the film look a lot better than Viveca Lindfors.

    It's interesting, but contemporary reviews in 1948 were a lot kinder to this picture than what appears today. It won a pair of Oscars, too. It's exciting!
     
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  17. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Did you ever get around to watching all of these?
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Samson & Delilah, I'm not a CB DeMille fan but the musical score, written and conducted by VICTOR YOUNG is wonderful. The very first film music soundtrack I ever restored. I have fond memories of it, that's for sure. The movie, not so much. I like that it was what was being filmed when Norma Desmond visited CB on the Paramount set in "Sunset Blvd." That's neat.

    Found this on YouTube, the Paramount Studio Orchesta conducted by composer Victor Young. Originally recorded on 30 ips full track 1/4" tape in 1949 at Paramount, now burned up, sadly.
    Decca loaned Paramount the Ampex machine to record the music to magnetic tape.

     
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  19. Spitfire

    Spitfire Senior Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Ivanhoe was on TCM today. Unfortunately it didn't look as good as the Blu-ray does
     
  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That's just a video label. The Warner Bros. division that does the actual restoration (film scanning, dust-busting, aligning 3-strip Technicolor, color-correction, grain management, and so on) is their Motion Picture Imaging department, which is over on Building 38 in Burbank. They do fantastic work: Singin' in the Rain, Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Godfather, all that stuff was done there by their skilled technicians.Very, very smart people over there.

    You remarked elsewhere that it costs a lot of to restore and pin-register Technicolor... and actually it doesn't. Everything they use is off-shelf tools that anybody can afford. It's not that expensive, except for the hardware (like the physical machines that do the film scanning). But the time involved is nightmarish. A small label can't afford to spend 6 months restoring one movie, as WB did on Godfather.
     
  21. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    I've found this to be the case, too but sometimes they come close. The recent airing of the SmileBox version of The Wonderful World Of The Brothers Grimm looked pretty nice but I'll still take the Blu any day. Another example is one I caught a few weeks ago, Queen Of Blood, a 60s sci-fi/horror flick notable for early Dennis Hopper. It's nothing to get too excited about but does have some deep color saturation throughout that I can only guess looks even better on disc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
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  22. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    All but Beau Brummell and now I'm gonna make a point to watch it this week.
     
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  23. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    What did you think of Zigfield Follies (1945)? I love that picture. I don't care much for the Keenan Wynn sketch, but the rest are pretty good, particularly Red Skelton's act.

    But the musical numbers!
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Eastman, yes? At least parts. Pissed me off.
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Just received a freebie "SECRET OF THE INCAS" from Kino Lorber, a Paramount movie I've never heard of with Chuckie Heston and Robert Young (!!)

    Since it's 1954, Paramount remastered in HD from a 4K scan of the 35mm YCM's.

    Haven't watched it yet but it looks interesting.
     

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