John Coltrane - Blue Train The Complete Masters Tone Poet 2022

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Jcashfan, Jul 27, 2022.

  1. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    Well, honestly, that is kind of my point... I mean I'm a musician and composer myself (using both expressions EXTREMELY loosely) and I don't really care about the alternate takes THAT THEY DIDN'T SEE FIT TO USE! Geez, to me it's like the deleted scenes from a movie. They took them out for a reason. I never watch them, unless there is director commentary where he goes into the details of what they were trying to do and why they didn't use it. Otherwise, clearly the alternate takes are inferior or THEY WOULD HAVE USED THEM :D

    Oh well... I guess there are some people who appreciate having them. For me, okay, LIVE performances where the songs differ like with the Grateful Dead, sure I see that. Every concert is indeed different. But, alternate takes from the studio... why...? Obviously, the perfect choice would have been to bundle the mono and stereo versions together. I still wouldn't have been too thrilled, but at least that makes some sense. BUT... then they wouldn't get all this money from all you guys who are buying BOTH then, would they :)
     
  2. Balcanquhal

    Balcanquhal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Inverness
    The reason they left out certain takes isn't necessarily because of content, but often in terms of LP playing time. In this case, the session didn't yield additional content, but it's simply not the case that alternate takes / additional content are solely left out because they're a load of crap. It's particularly the case for live recordings. Why be so prescriptive about this (and internet-shouting, too)?
     
  3. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    Sorry, sorry... :)

    Good point mate! I guess I was getting a little carried away with my thoughts there, my humble apologies. It's just I guess to me it seems like such a cash grab where even many others have stated something like, 'Oh yeah I'll check those out once', etc... But hey, I stand corrected if there are others who DON'T mind paying the extra money just for that. Please take into consideration too that many here appear to have endless resources (which I do tease about :)) But, I most certainly do not. So, it kind of hits me a little harder where I am paying what I feel is about $20 extra for a well done Classic album that is great, for stuff that I truly don't want and have no choice about.

    But hey... First World stuff, right...? :D

    So, sorry again to get so carried away, but again to many here spending whatever doesn't really seem to matter, to some of us it kind of does...
     
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  4. Balcanquhal

    Balcanquhal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Inverness
    Well, alternate takes never made CDs more expensive, and indeed the best way to discover jazz on a budget is still the CD (maybe also streaming, same sort of thing). I don't think anyone can reasonably do it at £20 per LP let alone the astonishing £40 that this (further overpriced compared to past Tone Poets) LP reissue cost.
     
    Swann36 and latheofheaven like this.
  5. johnnyb1964

    johnnyb1964 Treats please!

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    Well Blue Note paid Coltrane and company for two days rehearsal prior to recording, so maybe they are trying to recoup some of that money. :)
     
  6. vinylshadow

    vinylshadow Forum Resident

    Location:
    The south
    Good question.

    On edit: Jeez. I should read ahead! I have a Miyajima Zero Mono cart I need to mount. Should pay benefits on this album.
     
    latheofheaven likes this.
  7. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    Heh, maybe you're right :)

    BTW, just listened to the stereo pressing and WOW!!! Stunning sound and quiet background. Very nice indeed :righton: FWIW, I am FAR more impressed with the sound of this pressing in every way compared to the recent UHQR KOB 2-45 pressing. WAY more impressed, how about that... o_O
     
  8. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Ordered mine 7.28.2022 from Blue Note.
    Shipping notice 9.15.2022 label printed.
    No change since then.
    Customer Service keeps redirecting to the same tracking info.

    This happened last order too. It got 'lost in transit'. USPS never had custody. After 2 weeks I canceled and went Amazon.
    Lou Donaldson Blues Walk

    I hope this does not sell out.
    I might buy Amazon and if the other one shows up return one.
    I'll give it until Friday.
    No big deal but reading some reviews here has me 'anxious'
    Lol
     
  9. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    I don’t have the UHQR, only the original Classic Kind of Blue 45, but I agree. I also have the Classic 45 of Blue Train, the previous sound quality winner, for an apples to apples comparison. Without doing a shootout, I can easily say that this new mastering beats that handily.
     
  10. mbg

    mbg Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Currently in the same holding pattern with my order from BN.
     
    jhg0626, Ingenieur and latheofheaven like this.
  11. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Having the same issue. No update since the 15th. I did order a mono copy from Amazon but who knows when my stereo pressing arrives
     
    Ingenieur and latheofheaven like this.
  12. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    Thanks Bro, I always appreciate your input! :righton:
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  13. vinylshadow

    vinylshadow Forum Resident

    Location:
    The south
    What? Really? Without doing a shootout? Are you telepathetic? The stereo BN masters beats the 4 45 Classic set? I just ordered the stereo set for the book and outtakes but I can't believe it bests the Classic 45 set.
     
    kt66brooklyn and latheofheaven like this.
  14. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    :)

    Remember, both Kevin Gray and Bernie have updated their equipment since those Classics were pressed. I don't pretend to know for sure, but I would strongly guess that may have something to do with it.
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  15. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    I least I have company in my misery.
    :biglaugh:
     
  16. Nogoodnik

    Nogoodnik Celebrity Jeopardy and Mini Crossword smart

    Location:
    Saint Paul, MN
    Sorry if this has been clarified earlier in the thread, but I’m seeing conflicting information on Importcds.

    So, are there two Japanese import CDs for the Mono (SHM and UHQCD), or just one? Also, I’m getting the impression that the mono CDs are just the album proper with no deluxe version with a second disc. Is that right?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  17. vinylshadow

    vinylshadow Forum Resident

    Location:
    The south
    Hmmm. You could make the case that every single BG and Gray release is better than the Classics 45s. Or 33's. But I need shootouts. I'll do that as soon as I hook up my new system...But I need to get an orb+ to flatten my surfboard Classic 45's. I was thinking about filling them with dip but I'll just flatten them.
     
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  18. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    The Classic Blue Train 45 is great. It’s the reason why I don’t own an original pressing or the AP 45, it’s a fun listen. However, the new set swings just as hard as the Classic 45 but it adds lots of detail.
     
    latheofheaven likes this.
  19. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    I think the 'Detail' could be because of updated equipment. Even comparing some of Kevin Gray's earlier pressings with his later ones, you can tell the difference when he updated his mastering chain. And Bernie just said in an interview that he is 'constantly' upgrading his system.
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  20. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    He has really hit his stride with the Tone Poets.
     
    latheofheaven likes this.
  21. Andrew Mickunas

    Andrew Mickunas Forum Resident

    Just received my copy of Blue Train - Mono. Surprised that mine has a noticeable wave/warp in the pressing given the cost of the pressing. Where was this pressed at?

    It is not audible. Think I should ask for a return?
     
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  22. Snoddywilko

    Snoddywilko Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Personally, I don’t subscribe to the notion that there is no value in alternate takes or that they’re something to listen to once & then file away; particularly when it comes to a genre such as jazz, with supreme musicians playing long, live takes of pieces full of variation.

    This weekend, I played the second album from this 2LP set of The Complete Masters & left both sides to play multiple times in a row whilst painting.

    I find it fascinating to listen to compositions that I know the master takes of so well, played differently. A slight variation to a melody or a different approach to a section…each attempt inching closer towards achieving the final version. Each take is brilliant & full of inspiration & brilliant, intuitive interplay between the musicians.

    For me, the creative process is full of wonder. Watching a painter take a blank canvas & gradually turn it into something great, one brush stroke at a time….or seeing a sculptor chip away at a block of stone until it becomes…whatever the artist wants it to become; all of these are of never-ending interest to me.

    So personally, I’ll be playing the alternate takes much more than the classic takes that I’ve been listening to for years & know & love inside out.

    These alternate takes are fresh & only serve to make me appreciate these great compositions even more deeply & allow me to fall in love with them all over again.
     
    Fractured, Onto, conjotter and 7 others like this.
  23. latheofheaven

    latheofheaven My Pants are FULLY Analog...

    Well... How the hell can I argue with that! :D

    There you go... There are people, like you, who do indeed appreciate such things. Just shows that art resonates differently with different people. So, that's awesome that you enjoy listening to that while you are painting, perhaps I can learn something from that :)

    But, like I said, for me personally as a musician and composer (again, loosely) and one who has written and recorded roughly about 100 songs (no singing, mostly instrumental) I DO get into Live versions of known songs when there is indeed experimentation and improvisation, such as the many, MANY Grateful Dead concerts where just about every one is a unique experience. So, I can see where there could also be an element of this in these alternate takes too, which you clearly do appreciate. I guess what nags at me, and this is likely just some subjective impression of mine, is that if these takes weren't good enough to keep, then that would suggest that the final result was preferred. Now, you wanna give me a bunch of Live performances of the very same songs, THEN for me personally, I would be most enthusiastic and feel very much like you do. In looking at the way I stated things above, I really should not have put it the way I did. That was kind of stupid :agree: So, my humble apologies. I am happy though that you are getting real enjoyment out of the 2nd disc! :cheers:

    ***EDIT


    Oh, just to add... That is why I REALLY enjoy all these excellent Live albums by Jimi Hendrix, probably better than the studio ones. I put on the 'Valleys of Neptune' (I believe that is what it is called) and WOW! I'm just taken away by that one :D
     
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  24. Re: The Classic one sided 45 set.......didn't I read or hear on one of Chad's or Bernie's YouTube chats that only a "copy" was used then but now the original master tapes were found(hence all the tape box pix).


    Maybe I was dreaming this
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  25. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    That's correct there are two Japanese releases of the Mono Blue Train. One is an SHM-SACD, a single sided (not hybrid) SACD. The other is an UHQCD, a Redbook cd.

    And yes, both just include the originally released album material, no alternates.
     
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