LP vs CD revelations

So I've had both Massive Attack's Mezzanine and Peter Gabriel's UP since they both came out. I bought both CD and LP of each and have been listening only to the CD versions of these...until now.

I finally picked up a record player (Thorens TD166 MK II) and let me tell you - holy crap what a difference!

The depth and presence of the music is eye opening to say the least. And I have a pretty modest system. Tracks that I was indifferent to on CD are far more interesting on LP. The stuff just breathes. Vinyl simply had a subtleness the CD just doesn't have. The CDs seem cold and sterile. I'm not kidding when I say that LPs are good for the soul.

Anyway - my little reintroduction to vinyl. I'm back!

 

I usually am stunned by the difference in sound after I've been listening
to vinyl and then put a c.d. on and am wondering why the music seems
so flat, almost like hearing the music over the telephone!
Good for you that you took the time to get a TT and really enjoy music.
- Rock on!

 

It's somewhat funny that 20 years ago I wished I could wave a magic wand over my vinyl lps to convert them in to cds; now I sometimes wish I could do the reverse to all the cds I have that have never seen a vinyl lp release.

 

It's the "air." Cds are not capable of it as Steve Hoffman revealed with his recent tests.

 

You did point out that the reverb gets lost, no? Isn't that relative to the air?
I didn't mean you "said it." I meant you revealed it by that finding. Apologies for any misunderstanding.

Thanks for calling me your bud!

 

Maybe we're talking about two different things but I hear more "air" on your masterings (which I love BTW) than I hear on any others. Could you explain to me what we're talking about then? The decay of a room/reverb is not related to the "air" or "breath of life?"

Did you also not find in your recent tests that some reverb info is lost on CD?

 

Thank you for your gracious explanation, Steve. You know I respect your mastering and ear/knowledge like no other.

There was some mentioning of reverb info loss when it came to CDs, correct? When I hear vinyl, I hear music around me. When I hear a CD it sounds contained. I thought your findings were somewhat of an explanation for this. That was the air I was speaking of- not high end. I appreciate you setting me straight.

 

What about the SACD of Up ~ how does that sound?

 

I have to say that as you state you have a modest system the chances of CD sounding good are somewhat limited. Only with a high end CD player will the differences be markedly closer to vinyl. I got rid of my Linn turntable once I achieved something close to parity. I say close, it still doesn't resolve as much as vinyl but it's damn close and there are other benefits which swayed me.

 

Good show, Donald. That's a better way to describe my original take on it too.

That could be the problem for many of us. I've never heard an expensive CD player in my life.

 

This is the quote from Steve that led me to my mistaken comment here:

Steve's mastering has "tricks" that compensate for these things so, when it comes to other CDs void of the SH magic, maybe my first post wasn't really a mistake. Especially if you consider "air" in the "space" sense and not the EQ sense. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Peace Love and I'm an airhead
Marky

 

I agree with you, but the same arguement can be made with vinyl. After acquiring a Tri-Vista 300 Integrated amp, It seemed as if a blanket was removed from my speakers, as I heard detail from standard lp pressings that I never heard before.

 

Well put.

 

This is quite the same as what I experience when I go from HiRez to CD.

 

So, is this why so many use the smiley faced EQ?

 

All this tells us that CD playback on a modest system will not get near the "magic" that a half-decent LP playback system will have.

As I said in the other thread, the CD format can be just as wonderful as LP (better in many ways!) but unfortunately that type of performance comes at a high price.

You just can't say LP is better than CD fundamentally - what you can say is that, dollar for dollar, vinyl wipes the floor with CD in an average playback system.

I hate to talk about money when it's music we are all interested in but the reality is that given a high enough budget CDs can sound fantastic. This is really the problem with CD - it's just too darn expensive to get sound that takes your breath away. With vinyl you can get that pretty easily and its no surprise that many audiophiles would rather listen to LPs than shell out a load of extra money for CD playback to match what they can already get from their LPs.

I commited myself to CDs 20 or so years ago - confident in their potential. I knew I liked the benefits of CD over analogue (no surface noise, difficult to damage, etc.) and I felt it was fairly close to sounding as good as vinyl even back then.

I have spent years climbing an upgrade path to get to my current system - yes the gear I have is a bit pricey but it really wasn't all that expensive seeing as it was mostly used gear and by building up the cost slowly over the years it really hasn't been that hard (I am certainly not rich by any stretch of the imagination!).

The point I am making is that with a CD player even as good as the Sony SCD-1 I never felt it was quite there as far as the "magic" is concerned. Now with the dCS converter and upsampler I finally feel I've reached a point where I am perfectly happy if I never spin another LP in my life.

What I am trying to say is that 16/44.1 isn't the problem - the plaback gear is the problem. CD's can sound great and I get tired of reading statements slagging off the CD format itself by suggesting CDs can't sound as good as vinyl - they can. Just because they sound flat and boring on a particular CD player that doesn't mean the format is not capable of wonderful sound.

[/rant]

 

What CD player are you using?

 

AGREED...

Of course...

Just put on one of SH's DCC SILVER & GOLDS! VINYLS EQUAL or BETTER!!!!

Case closed, door slammed shut.

 

I tend to agree with you; however, this is the exact opposite of the prevailing view back when CDs were first released - back then, I remember reading constantly that maybe a super-high-end turntable would still sound better than CDs, but that for most people with average budget equipment, CDs sounded better due to their lack of pops, clicks, rumble, etc. associated with entry-level turntables.

I do think that once you get to say, the Rega P1 level, you probably have to spend double or triple the amount on a CD player than you would on a turntable in order to get something approaching the same performance.

 

Okay, let's talk numbers here. How much do I need to experience this digital bliss?

 

Approximate cost of NM used LP: $4

Lowest-possible cost of used DCC CD: $100

I'm going with vinyl. I can't afford a DCC collection.