Denafrips Dacs

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bever70, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    I'm on the fence between getting an Ares II (Enya) or Pontus II. I'm assuming my downstream system (Leben CS300XS -> Klipsch Forte IV's) is sufficient to reveal the full potential of the Pontus? I keep reading reviewers who put an arbitrary $ amount on the system (amp+speakers) that it's worth stepping up to the Pontus for at roughly $5K plus?

    For now I'd be using my old Sonos ZonePlayer as a streamer, via coax or Toslink connection, however the Darko review below though gives me pause:
    "...I’d argue the potential of the DAC isn’t fully realized until one feeds it upsampled data via the USB or I2S inputs."

    Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of "upsampled data?"

    My Sonos doesn't have those outputs. I'd imagine that I'll be upgrading streamer at some point in the near future (when Sonos completely bricks their hardware units operating on S1 operating system), but I don't see myself really going beyond a WiiM Pro, which doesn't have USB or I2S outputs either.

    Given those factors, is the Pontus still worth it for my situation?
     
  2. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I think the Pontus would be a great match for your system. I ran a Terminator II with a Cronus Mangum III and Forte IIIs. I have since upgraded the speakers to Cornwall IV. The Cornwalls are capable of more than I'm asking of them with those components. The amp is the bottleneck due to noise floor of the tubes.

    Speaking from my experience with the Terminator, I think that John Grandburg is probably right that the better data the Pontus receives, the better it will perform. However, I wouldn't put too much weight on that in regard to your buying decision. The Pontus will sound great with reasonable source material (Redbook or better) through COAX or Toslink, and it will only get better with those tweaks.
     
    DJSpinner likes this.
  3. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The Pontus is the way to go for sure. I have a plain old Pontus one and it's great, I've used all the input types except for USB, fiber optic and I2S.
    Plus you can choose silver as opposed to black.
    I just think that not unlike phono stages, you want the best you can get/afford and the Pontus delivers a lot and is fairly future proofed.
     
    DJSpinner likes this.
  4. Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, Ca.
    I agree, I had an Ares and sold it off. Just didnt cut it for me. The Pontus is ideal and hits near my self imposed price limit on a single piece of audio gear. I am now using a Neotech solid silver Coax digital cable with solid silver WBT 70 ohm connectors and the experience is wonderful. It's just a bit better than a Kimber D60 solid silver coax for less than half the price.
     
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  5. Linger63

    Linger63 Forum Resident

    Location:
    AUSTRALIA
    I think you mean 75 ohm........:p
     
  6. Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, Ca.
    75 ohm. Must be the COVID I got.
     
    Linger63 likes this.
  7. nyrjoe

    nyrjoe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New York
    With the Pontus is Coax, Toslink preferred over USB? If so, aside from the Neotech mentioned above any other cable recommendations?

    Thanks
     
  8. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    My understanding that the pecking order on all Denafrips DACs is I2s > USB > COAX > Toslink. Not sure how the other connectors like BNC fit in there.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  9. nyrjoe

    nyrjoe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New York
    Had thought the same, recently switched over to USB from Coax and it sounded better to me. However the discussion above has me thinking maybe my Coax cable was not good enough? It’s an inexpensive Mediabridge that’s a few feet too long anyways. Have a Node2i feeding the Pontus, so welcome any optimal connection recommendations.
     
  10. Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, Ca.
    I've been testing some Coax cables because both my inputs, a Nod and an Audiolab CDT 6000 are Coax only. I imagine USB I2S might be good options as a friend uses I2s and is very happy with it. However, in all my testing The Neotech solid silver and the Kimber D60 silver cable are my favorites. I have a very smooth natural sounding system. If I had something a little more spicy I'd probably use a Gotham GAC1 cable which is a phenomenal digital cable for about $30. (Look up ProAudio La in Glendale, Ca for one or deal directly with Gotham in Switzerland. Both have been reliable vendors.) The Gotham is smooth, detailed and doesn't have the edge that some silver plated cables have. The Neotech is my favorite cable now. It has a solid silver connector and I use 75Ohm WBT connectors with a solid silver center pin (Real WBTs not the Chinese ripoffs on Ebay) The real silver WBTs cost about $325 for four and the Newtech cable is about $65 a meter. The off the shelf cable that comes close to the Neotech is the Kimber D60 but after cryo treating my D60 I'd say that the cryo definitely improved the cable moving it closer to the Neo. I'll link the story on the Neotech cable, the author used silver solder on his cable, I used Wonder Solder on mine fearing the silver solder would be too bright Just a personal choice. Wonder solder has been around for decades and is an excellent all around solder for audio gear. I ordered the parts for my cable from the recommended retailer in France and had a good experience. Quick ship. All I can say is there must be a couple hundred cable companies out there and most of them offer a return policy so get to testing. It can be quite illuminating.
     
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  11. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Maybe it wasn’t good enough and a better cable would improve your coax performance above USB using your current cable. I guess it would follow that gains could be had on the USB side with a better cable too.
     
  12. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Interestingly i've had waaaay better luck with the AES/EBU connection vs i2S on my Pontus II.

    Might more a function of the the i2S output on my humble pi+pi2aes streamer than the input on the denafrips, so who knows.

    Tried a nice i2S cable (AQ Mocha), and all the possible i2s settings, but it wasn't even close. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  13. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Yeah, that makes sense. Need a good signal on both sides of the cable. I thought AES sounded great on mine too.
     
  14. edo.t

    edo.t Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    I'm wondering how this Neotech cable compares to the Oyaide 510 silver coax. I'm using a DH Labs silver D-750 (plated, not solid silver) which is very good (it beat my Blue Jeans cable). I plan on bringing a Oyaide back from Japan in April and will have to look for some Neotech too.

    When I had a Venus I preferred BNC coax to USB.
     
  15. Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, Ca.
    I used to have a high end cable company back in the 80s and 90s. I never found silver plated wire to sound good on analog cables but my digital cable sounded best with silver plated wire. Blue Jeans makes a silver plated digital cable that sounds better than their regular cable but not in the league we are talking here. Pure silver is sweeter and less peaky. Much preferred by me. If you go to the comments under the video I posted, you will find a reference to a French company AudioPhonics where I bought all my parts. Good folks. Shipped quidkly and the non VAT prices are good. You can put together a one M cable for $200.
     
    Dafox likes this.
  16. Phono Groove

    Phono Groove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Any update on the microclick issue ? I've had the same problem running spdif to my Oppo BDP-105, at least on every disc I play I hear a click at least once. For me that is unacceptable for a product of this price. I don't think the company has addressed this and people continue to be passive and accept to live with this....
     
  17. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    I have a ZENmini server, I expect the USB out of that is good. Seems a bit much to convert that USB to I2S using a Denafrips Iris …

    The Pontus II seems to have the isolation, reclocking, and FPGA processing inside, seems like just having the Iris or even higher end DDC would be superfluous. But then of course anything could sound better to some folks.

    I’m thinking I don’t have golden ears. My new Pontus II 12th sounds damn good, mind you, but 2x better than my Topping D90SE? Maybe I should just pass my gear along to a more discerning young audiophile … I am giving a bunch of my “old“ stuff to my daughter, and eventually she will inherit all of it. So I guess I will enjoy it while I’m still around.
     
  18. Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, Ca.
    It got me interested too but I noticed a guy I trust on reviews, The British Audiophile, reviewed the unit but didnt actually buy one for his system. I think at the time he reviewed it he was using a Pontus but has moved up to the next higher DAC, the Venus? I'll ask him on the next zoom meeting why he didnt get one. I'm guessing the diminishing return from owning a Venus made it a moot point. A little gain with the added burden of another cable box and power cord.c
     
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  19. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I'd be really interested to hear what he has to say about that. I like his review style.
     
  20. Harris11235

    Harris11235 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Yes, the Pontus has all of those things, as does my DAC. I've been very curious about their DDCs, and I mentioned somewhere before that I would order one today if there was a trial/return period. I've heard a number of accounts of them improving the sound of the DAC, but I have the same reservations you do and the value proposition isn't quite there without a trial to prove it.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  21. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Not sure tbh, I run spdif or coaxial from my cheap marantz cd6006 and there is no click/skip at all.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  22. edo.t

    edo.t Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    It's a compatibility issue that is not going to be fixed. The solution is to either get a transport that works (Jay's, etc...) or get a different DAC. I opted for the latter but do miss the Venus. It's better than what I have now, which always works and sounds pretty damn good.
     
  23. Phono Groove

    Phono Groove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Interesting, I have the chance to pick up a Marantz cd6005 cd player for cheap, I’ll test that out and see how it goes. Have you by any chance tried other cd transports that gave you the clicks? That should pretty much confirm that thr Marantz would be compatible…
     
  24. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Unfortunately I only have one cd player/transport however I do have a node2i, that also works 100% fine. Right now I'm using coaxial from node2i and spdif from cd6006. The pontus is more than a class above both internal dac by a huge margin.
     
    Bananas&blow likes this.
  25. I picked up a Hermes for my Pontus II a while back and noticed a significant improvement. I have zero regrets with my ddc purchase...clearer, more open sound, more enjoyable with the Hermes in the chain.

    I think the effectiveness of a ddc will depend on your streamer and how much jitter one has in their system. Ie. If mid to lower end streamer is passing some jitter, the ddc will reclock and clean the signal before hitting the dac. If one has a clean digital front end with a high end streamer (thinking a better lumin model etc..) ddc may not be worth it.

    Some high DACs reclock well inside the dac chassis too, in those cases ddc may not be great bang for buck.... In all other cases I think a ddc is worth considering.
     
    chipcalzada likes this.

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