Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

Finding quiet NOS tubes is proving to be a challenge.

The quietest ecc82 I have installed in my M3 Line has been the factory supplied Psvane, so for now that one remains.

 

I have been trying out many different ecc82 and for me I go back to the Nos mullard. I tried many different types and although I wish sometimes there was a little -more- in the top-end everything else is 10/10 for me. For my taste nothing has come close.

 

And that’s for the Oto phono se signature, where the ecc82 plays a significant role.

 

I am finding the same thing…never realized how noisy some of my favorite tubes were!

 

I also have an OTO SE Phono Signature.
In my system a Amperex 7316 D-Getter has been the best choice for the single line-stage 12AU7. As stated, this one tube plays a significant role on the overall sound.

Power Tubes: I tried Gold Lion EL84, Watford Valves E84L-BT and prefer the Sovtek EL84.
Pre-Amp: Running Mazda CIFTE 12AX7-S
Phono: Pinched-Waist 6DJ8, and Amperex Red-Tipped 12AX7

That said, I have a selection 12AU7: Tungsram 12AU7 (these can be great, sub-par until you find a great one), Siemens Silver-Anode, Mazda 6189 which, while not better than the Amperex 7316 D-Getter, I could be happy with.

Only the Sovtek EL84 tubes are new. I will be moving these to the OTO SE Phone Siler Signature currently on order

Hope that helps.

 

Mike, it's been an adventure, to be sure!

I have found in my M3 Line Balanced preamp, the ecc82 and 5751 tubes have had the largest impact on noise, and by noise I'm referring to hiss/hash (not hum or microphonics). 5687 tubes have had an impact as well, but finding a few quiet ones (Tung-Sol and Raytheon) has not been as difficult.

 

I’ve spent the last year and a half or so rolling tubes in my Oto Phono SE Sig. Just a ton of tubes. While the 12AU7 probably makes the biggest difference, every tube in there has a significant impact on the overall sound.

Over time I realized my favorite tubes by far are 1950s (or 40s if you can get ‘em!) RCA black plates. Not the gray plates, not the clear tops - the black plates, and the older the better. The ones with the silver foil fetters are the best, though the bent square getters are great too. This goes for the 12AU7, all the 12AX7s, and even the EL84s.

They’re just stunning tubes, with an effortless, holographic realism in the mids. Everything else sounds “wrong” to me. And it was Peter Qvortrup who put me onto them, and then Ben Jacoby confirmed it.

Also they’re still pretty reasonably priced, especially the 12AU7s!

To be sure, my system errs toward the lean side of neutral, so the natural warmth of the RCAs really synergizes. If you need a leaner sound, try 1940s Ken-Rad pewter plates - stunning tubes, and dirt cheap!

Unfortunately, RCA never made 6DJ8s (to my knowledge). On Peter Q’s recommendation I tried a bunch of different Amperexes. There’s a *lot* of variations and each sounds different, unfortunately. And more unfortunately still, the best I found was the expensive pinched waist, in my case a 6922 PQ white label. Stunning tube, and the market knows it!

So my final lineup (at least for now!) is:

Main amp:
RCA 12AU7 1950s black plate (wide D getter)
RCA 12AX7 1950s black plates (silver foil getter)
RCA 6BQ5 1950s black plates (smoked glass)

Phono:
RCA 12AX7 1950s black plate (silver foil getter)
Amperex 6922 1959 PQ white label (pinched waist)

 

@dunkyboy, you inspired me to dig out a couple early 60s vintage RCA 5814A, and lo-and-behold one is quiet!

Amperex 6922 PQ USA White label may be my favorite tube of that variety. I also like 60s vintage Mullard 6922 Blackburn, depending on the component.

 

RCA Black plate 5814A is an excellent tube, for its rich harmonics and low-noise. I was using one in my M3 phono until I changed to a Brimar 13d5. Lovely sound, but near impossible to find quiet Brimars. Amperex 12AU7 special selects for Tektronix or hospital are as quiet as I've ever heard (have never found the pinched-waist).
I agree with the choice of 6922's, although I prefer the more laid-back Holland PQ type. I also use the 1960s Mullard 6922. Right now I have Mullard RTC 7308s in my DAC2.1x Sig.

 

Look for a Telefunken E802CC, expensive but worth it...

Hi, its Circa 2018... but as I've mentioned before its not 'standard'... having had a couple of sets of up-grades.

Ref your comments on the M6, and also in relation to the Tomei, they are AG/CU windings not full AG and as much as I'd never say no to an Ongaku, the mixed (primary / secondary), windings give something truly special and I'm definitely not the only one to say as such.

In terms of the Ferrous magnet / ALNICO magnet speakers, I can honestly say when you get to the Ferrous Signature versions they are IMHO, truly and utterly wonderful and mine are a magnificent match to the M6RIAA / Tomei i run.

I hope you get to hear a Tomei, it'll be interesting if you do and what you decide.

Nige.

 

I have read great things about the Telefunken E802CC.

Last week, I placed an order for a super low-noise Tele ecc82 from one of, perhaps the only, tube seller in the USA who rigorously tests tubes for noise. Fingers crossed. Now, it's a matter of patience for delivery.

 

Who is the tube seller in the US? I’ve been reading many post here about tube rolling and I am curious about it. For my Tomei Kensei I have both the stock Psvane 211s and the 4242es. Although it’s all relatively new stuff I seem to prefer the stock Psvane 211s at this point. But I’d be willing to try the RCAs based on what I’ve read on this site if I could find a pair for a reasonable price. I don’t know anyone else with AN gear to play with.

 

Andy Bouwman, Vintage Tube Service

 

Andy is really great to deal with - thumbs up

 

Hi, I have a Tomei integrated, mine came with the 4242's but I changed for a pair of Elrog ER211 Gen 1's which I find more revealing... its always a personal taste thing.

The Elrogs had a reputation of failing but I found a used pair that had not failed and they are still going strong.

I was looking for NOS - RCA, GE's etc., but as PQ pointed out the 4242's are based on some of the best NOS out there, and and original pair of those would set you back thousands if you can find them... here's the list I had from Peter of the ones that would be worth it if you to sell a limb or two...

"all the 211 types that are sufficiently good to challenge the 4242E are way more expensive, here is a list of numbers,

United Electronics 38111a
835
CG1985, this is a Molybdenum anode version made by Westingshouse
4242A STCs Molybdenum version which we copied with the 4242E
242 Western Electric, these are staggeringly expensive"

The UE's are supposed to be north of £3000 each and 1940/50's RCA's over 2k each...

All of the above are super hard to find as well - although PQ may well have some if you're really interested.

My next 211's will be the Elrog Er242's - but these are nearly €3000 a pair - so it won't be anytime soon...

Cheers Nige

 

I have 3 Telefunken G73R tubes which take the 802 sound and push it even further. Interesting story behind their manufacture. I don’t currently use them but they are a very unique sound. I’ll stick with the Mullard ECC186 tubes in the 12AU7 position.

 

I've looked at the G37R's but never quite took the plunge to buy one as they are very expensive...

How do they sound Finn?

And interested in your feedback on the Mullard ECC186 as an alliterative? As I have not spare tube for this position at present, as I put the E802CC to replace a failing 6189.

Cheers Nige.

 

I bought them when a supplier dropped them in price from $400 to $170 and they sold out in 30 minutes. If you ever want to hear every detail in a recording, there are no tubes which provide that kind of electron microscope perspective that these are capable of. They would be suitable for very few systems.
The 186’s are superb, balanced, dynamic, tonally nuanced and worth the dollars. Rare as rocking horse do-doo.

 

It's funny how tube rolling can become a game of, "Who has the biggest rainbow?".

I've had a few pairs of esoteric tubes in my collection over the years, and they've all eventually been sold. For some reason, I tend to favor good (quiet, balanced, strong) examples of common variants, because it allows my mind to focus on the music rather than the tube(s).

 

Tube rolling has only been a competitive sport since headphone amps became hugely popular and it was seen as a form of internal tribalism and opportunity to spend without changing equipment and more recently has drifted over to mainstream audio but sort of highlighted by owners of Chinese made amps trying to push the boat out on performance, much the same as the dangerous game of swapping resistors, caps and now chokes in power supplies. You buy an amp and join a tribe, you swap tubes and move closer to the fire, you swap internal components and it’s real toasty, modify operational points and your moccasins are smoking but hey, I’m part of the tribe.
When I sold Audio Research equipment, you wanted to change tubes, you got a new set of factory supplied tubes, real simple.

 

Lovely and not modest system at all welcome to the thread!

 

Point made.

 

Hi,

Have you ever heard any of the other makes of ECC186 - Philips Miniwatt, Valvo? I've found a NOS Philips SQ Miniwatt for sale?

Or is this one of those tubes where all were made by the same company and just branded differently?

Thanks,

Nige.

 

Langrex had them for £100 each and I bought 20 of them once I had heard one of them that a client had bought earlier. I have always bought tubes like Brimar CV-4068 Tubes for 12au7 positions, occasionally other Mullard, very few American tubes.
Haven’t listened to other versions but SQ tubes are generally pretty nice.