Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. R.T.Firefly

    R.T.Firefly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Poland
    Could you check the production codes on them? I've only ever seen a few of those and even the Mullards had Heerlen codes, so the Philips @nige harris is asking about might just be the same tube with different branding.
     
  2. nige harris

    nige harris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Thanks, yes I've had other SQ's before and alway very good.
     
  3. Dewie

    Dewie Well-Known Member

    This may be a stupid question, but is there an optimum length for a digital interconnect cable, SQ wise? Naturally from a budgetary perspective, shorter is preferable. It's just that I read somewhere on another forum that 1.5m is "better" than say 0.75m, but I don't know whether it's reliable.
     
  4. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    1.5m has often been stated as optimal for RCA digital COAX. Whether you (or anyone) can hear the difference between 1.5m and 1m is open to debate.

    Length doesn't matter for XLR AES/EBU or USB as far as I know.
     
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  5. Andrew Mackay

    Andrew Mackay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Taillant, France
    Does tube rolling put you on the path to audio nirvana? Or madness? Having read some very informative posts here, I've flirted with the idea of getting a 'back up set' for my OTO Line SE Signature (actually, that idea is based more on curiosity/anxiety that the factory set might, just might, be bettered - rather than being anything to do with smart, forward planning).....but is a blind outlay of xxx US$ going to increase your sound quality exponentially, particularly since it's almost impossible to audition NOS tubes (or any other for that matter)? Any purchasing decision must, therefore, be founded on somebody else's experience or recommendation and their idea of what is a reasonable budget. I'm increasingly tending to the view that some clever souls in the AN factory have done the homework for me and selected the stock tubes based on hours of listening, cost evaluation etc to come up with their best possible solution for this particular amp. Secure in the knowledge that I can get a replacement set, or talk to somebody in the factory about other options in the future, for me it's a merry-go-round I'm happy to stay off.
     
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  6. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Andrew I'll just say this tube rolling aside you should always have a complete backup of tubes for any gear in your system that's audio preparedness 101 to me, so if you don't have a backup set do get one!
     
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  7. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    There is some truth in that.

    I've spent a week painstakingly substituting tubes in an effort to fine the quietest combination, and I have realized the factory supplied tubes in my M3 Line Balanced preamp sound pretty darn good. I had a similar epiphany recently with a Lampizator DAC, for which I purchased several NOS tubes after reading user experiences on another forum. In the end, I decided the Lampizator supplied tubes were excellent and no other tube rolling was required for me.

    Rolling tubes just changes the sound. One tube can do it. A rectifier. A small signal tube. Will it sound better? Maybe. Maybe not.

    One thing I would add to your observation of the factory doing the homework for you is that the factory also considers economy and availability. So, they furnished a new Psvane 12AU7 in my M3 preamp, whereas they probably supply something a bit more dear in an M6 and above. That's my guess anyway.

    And, yes, as @jonwoody said, having a back-up set is the correct Boy Scout strategy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2023
  8. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Hey Audio Note experts. Sorry to barge in here but I didn’t get much of a response from the thread I started. I have AN/e lx’s with a 300b SET amp. I do get decent bass but perhaps not as full as I would like, which may be the SET amp. In my search for improvement, I’ve been thinking about adding a pair of Rel S510 subs. Do you of you use subs with your AN’s? Any input would be appreciated.
     
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  9. nige harris

    nige harris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Hi, I'm no expert but I definitely do not use a sub. I'd try some tube rolling first with which ever 300B SET your using as this can make a significant difference, as can speaker cables and very importantly placement.

    N
     
  10. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I definitely have noticed the Gold Lions seem to have more bass compared to the Western Electrics. I also change speaker placement from time to time. I love the system, just trying to make it a bit more complete. Thanks for your reply
     
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  11. dunkyboy

    dunkyboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Tube rolling does risk madness, and a very sad bank account! If you’re happy with the sound of stock, leaving well enough alone is pretty sensible!

    But if you put in the effort, you can almost always better the stock tubes with older units - and the difference is often huge. It just takes a ton of trial and error, and going round in circles…

    That said, the financial pain can be eased by buying used tubes to experiment with, and selling on the losers.
     
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  12. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Some things are better left unwritten. ;)

    Seriously, though, that’s exactly what makes buying tubes so perilous for many folks.
     
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  13. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I’ve had pretty good luck going with nos out of the gate. The Hytron’s and Sylvania’s up front sound great. Ordered 2 pairs of replacements for each, plus a couple different pairs for rolling. Should be good for awhile.
     
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  14. SetANE

    SetANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    @Earthbound2 i used rel s510 sub for awhile. coherence is a big deal. the rel is aimed at coherence but i didn't think it worked out or helped. i have an-e he spe and they develop heaps of bass as it is. so for me it didn't really assist as i might have hoped.
     
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  15. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Valuable input. Thank you SetANE. That’s one of my worries. All of a sudden I feel like I hear plenty of base! I guess I’m just focusing on it a bit more.
     
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  16. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    If the output from the iron in your amp is relatively linear and controlled the the bass reproduced by the E’s will be influenced by proximity to room corners, stand design and filling and lastly, by the cable choices made. The harder into the corners, the better bass presence generated. If you have access to an AN dealer, make use of their knowledge to set the speakers up correctly.
     
  17. SetANE

    SetANE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney NSW
    got an opportunity to try new cable between SUT and RIAA.

    was using a Silverfi R3 phono cable

    tried:
    - Sogon 42
    - Sootto (Bochnino connectors)
    - Sootto (Furutech connectors)
    - Pallas (one black and one brown)

    I was spurred to do this as Dinosaur Jnr's "where ya been" sounded distant and somewhat dead. And i just figured it was time to try the Phono IC since to date i had not experimented at all.

    Sogon seemed nice and was the first inkling that the R3 cable i had been using was somewhat bass heavy perhaps. But not "thrilled".

    Sootto (1.3 m cable) with Bochnino sounded great but by the next day i realised it was removing almost all bass and this explained the very different presentation and no i did not like this

    Sootto (furutech) sameish as above

    Pallas - first inkling that something good was happening was the feeling of energy. i could hear the energy in the recording being conveyed directly. i personally think chopping and changing cables is very ineffective and one needs time to know what is "better". but the feeling of energy was a hint at more resolution and more transparency.

    Also @finn suggested the lower rca outlets on M6 were directly connected to output Tx so i connected to them.

    Anyway quite soon i realised, even though i had unmatched pallas cables (brown and black), this was the winner.

    What followed was a listening session like i have never had. i couldn't get enough and played records until the family told me no more. it was really special and i came to understand why AN wire these cables into their top tier SUTs.

    i also got a lesson (again and again and will i ever learn?) in how exactly cables are made for different levels. the Silverfi R3 was a tremendous cable for me until it wasn't.
     
  18. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    In a good room, where corner placement can be achieved, I would say that E's don't need a sub but in my room it is simply not possible. I have tried playing down the long dimension of the room, and while the deep bass is great, the room has a SEVERE lower midbass suckout that kills the music.

    I have a pair of Monitor Audio subs that I use occasionally. I connect them through a MiniDSP, where I set a cutoff frequency of 30 Hz and delay the signal corresponding to the 23 cm the sub drivers are in front of the speaker's drivers.

    The subs mainly see action for certain recordings that lean to the bright side. They are also fun if I want to shake the house, and while my E's play a very decent bass where they are (better than all other speakers that have been in my room), there are some deep-down notes on some recordings that I only discovered with the subs on.

    However, the subs do detract some from the musicality of the speakers and how engaging they sound, so I only use them if I a recording requires it because it's so lean that it annoys me. Or if I feel like shaking the house :D
     
  19. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    So do you listen across the short axis of the room? I’ve had to do that type of set up a number of times and I have used Joachim Gerhard’s set up method and it can work quite remarkably well. He was the original Audio Physics speaker designer, very smart man. It can create a phenomenal sound stage if done correctly.
     
  20. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Correct, I listen across the short axis. And the sound is really good, particularly the sound stage. But I haven't heard of Joachim Gerhard's set up method, though, so will check it out to see if there's more I can do. Thanks.

    Even the bass is quite good and reasonably tuneful considering how difficult my room is with bass nodes. To illustrate: If I put on a 50 Hz test tone, the subjective level of it gets lowered by something like 10 dB, if not more, if I lean 1,5 meters forward from the listening position, placing my head in the middle of the room. And yes, I have worked with professionally with sound, so I know how what 10 dB means.
     
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  21. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    The great rational benefit of Joachim’s set up is that the chair/couch is very close to the rear wall rather than off it and the speakers are angled very hard to still cross over in front of the listening position but the greatest aspect of the resulting sound is a very pronounced sense of image depth to the recording, much more than any other set up perspective. I have used it in show situations where firing down the room has been a disaster and you should see some of the looks I get when they first walk in the room. They soon change when they sit down.
     
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  22. Salectric

    Salectric Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    That’s a very interesting report @SetANE. I have never seen or heard Bochnino connectors but they are reputed to be among the world’s best, and Sooto cable has a great reputation, so I am surprised the combination didn’t work out so well, at least as a SUT cable. I suspect this has to do with capacitance. I like a low-capacitance DIY cable on my SUT more than any of my AN cables (Sogon, Vx, Isis and Lexus). All of my AN cables have much higher capacitance. Alas, I don’t have any Pallas.
     
  23. rufusblues

    rufusblues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    For people interested in Joachim's set up approach: Installation guide for loudspeakers by Joachim Gerhard - Suesskind Audio
     
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  24. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
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  25. Atle Rovik

    Atle Rovik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Very interesting to read about your experiences with cables between sut and riaa, @SetANE

    This was a bit unclear to me:
    Does it mean that the lower rca outputs are preferred to the higher ones? And does it apply also to riaa’s/pre’s other than M6?
     
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