We've just started watching this show and have seen the first four episodes of season one. In order to avoid spoilers I have not read this thread. As of the end of S1E4, Logan Roy is highly angered by Kendall's move to save the company but it appears that this was Kendall's only option. Logan's anger is making no sense to us. Is a believable/logical explanation of Logan's anger coming later in the season? In other words, was there another viable option available to Kendall at the time?
It was a fun show to do background/extra work as part of the Waystar office management for a couple years.
I will try to avoid reading much else here until I finish Season 3 in the next few days (I am halfway through Season 3), but this show is so good. Literally every character is a terrible human being, but they are so compelling to watch, and the entertainment value is off the charts. Tom makes me LOL on a regular basis, and Brian Cox is unreal as Logan Roy. The "boar on the floor" scene from Season 2 was equally horrifying and hilarious. Amazing how much someone will humiliate themselves when money and power are hanging in the balance.
Totally agree. My main complaints of the show are the type of dialog...like...yeah...no...for sure...punctuated by trademark expressions or vacant looks, where there's actually no good writing but the audience is cleverly made to connect the dots and fill in the blanks. Several, if not all, of the characters and actors are made to talk like this at various points, if not consistently. The bigger complaint is how each season follows the same arc. There is a promise, explicit or implicit, of Logan either losing or giving up control of the company and his kids taking control, and then there is a twist at the end enabling Logan to outmaneuver his kids and cling to power. In spite of this, it's still hugely entertaining and, like @George Co-Stanza says, every character is compelling despite being detestable to varying degrees. But if the show really wants to advance beyond these tropes and create more of story, it needs to get past this and actually change the control dynamic to force the audience to see the characters in a different way.
We just started season 2. The premise is an escalating series of attempts to take over the company instigated by Ken mostly and how they go disastrously wrong combined with a set of siblings competing to please a nasty old man in hopes of being next in line. Hence the title. I'm only expecting variations on the theme. It's entertaining.
Agreed. I finished Season 3 (STOP to anyone who hasn't yet)...and Logan coming out on top again at the end felt a bit predictable and stale. I get that the story is more compelling with him having power, as his character would be totally useless and emasculated once removed from power, but they seem to be falling into a trap with him always finding a way to win. If their goal was to make Kendall look like a *******, they did a great job of it. He does what he did at the end of 2, and then spends half of 3 telling his plan and ideas to anyone who will listen, seemingly oblivious to the fact that most of those people will sell out anyone and will blab his plan to the wrong people. I didn't expect him to suddenly turn into a genius, but his stupidity was stunning.
I don't think that is escalation. A plot to force Logan out of his own company isn't really escalated by exposing negative things about the company to force Logan out or to promote third parties as part of a deal that forces Logan out. Plotting to murder him would be escalation, but the show never went that dark. The variations are interesting and entertaining. That's true. But I think the show could be a lot more than what it is and transcend its own cliches by having characters evolve in more significant ways. They shy away from opportunities to grow at every turn. I guess that's part of the humor. Yeah, the twist at the end of S3 was that Tom screwed Shiv, proving that she pushed him a bit too far; that power and money turned him on more than Shiv did; and that he trusts Logan to reward him. Good luck with that. I'll be surprised if he comes out on top of the S4 sausage factory. I think Logan can still be a compelling character if he's removed from power, but so far it seems like we'll never know. Brian Cox could certainly pull off a defeated Logan who goes from contrite to pompous in the throes of dementia. I don't think Tom and Shiv's marriage can be maintained with the power dynamic reversed. We'll see how long that lasts in the new season.
I think Tom figures it is better to be on the side of the winner, and like he said to Kendall (with paraphrasing on my part to keep it clean), Logan never gets screwed and Kendall always does, so Tom was merely getting with the side that always win. Tom and Shiv seem like a marriage in name only now anyway, and any real loyalty to her went out the window the instant she didn't seem all that concerned when it appeared he was headed for real prison time. I also think he believed she was being honest and not just talking trash when she told him she didn't love him, so Tom is a man floundering a bit, looking for a life raft to grab, which is also why he has a bit more affection for Greg now rather than now seeing him as subordinate whom he can boss around.
Agreed. There is a truthfulness to what Tom did and--despite all the hints--you couldn't really see it coming because of the way he had always been faithful to Shiv. That was some great construction to S3, so the show really deserves a lot of credit. Yeah, sleeping with other people is a pretty surefire way to screw up your marriage so Shiv ultimately has only herself to blame. On the other hand, Tom should have known her and what he was signing up for by marrying her. They're all such greedy bastards, haha. I still believe that the show is ultimately set up for Greg to become the successor, but so far I've been wrong about that.
I hope that not's the case, as Greg is too much of a doofus to see taking over, but I guess time will tell. I think Tom is not only the funniest character, but the most interesting. Early on, when he was denigrating and playing word games with Greg, I disliked him, but the character development with him has been outstanding.
His status as an insider/outsider is a big hint to me. The setup where in the very first episode he's on the ground vomiting into his own costume at the amusement park seems like the lowest rung of a ladder he will ascend to construct his ascent. Makes sense to start at the very bottom and the "aw shucks" doofus routine is a big part of that. He is treated horribly by Tom and the others--even his own mother and grandfather. I tend to identify symmetry in shows, and to me this sets him up for wearing the crown one day and having everyone grovel at his feet. I failed to identify Bran, who started out by the end of GoT S1E1 as a disabled little boy, as being set up to be king. So really, I have a horrible track record of figuring these things out and should just give up. Yes, he's funny in a very cringey way that seems menacing and maniacal to me. I can't help but find Tom to be the most detestable character. At least Logan's children are screwed up, entitled and greedy for understandable reasons. Tom is just a monster to me that almost defies explanation. His frat-boy demeanor is horrifying and the way he preys on Greg and would throw anyone under the bus to achieve more power is manic. When he found out he wasn't going to jail, he stormed into Greg's "office" where he had forced him into a storage area, started screaming like a lunatic, pushed over Greg's desk and had a manic attack. The guy really should be locked up.
Don’t know if this has been discussed on this thread as I just read the last page but it seems to me Kendall is written as bi-polar. It will be interesting to see if they address it through the story.
I don't really get that. I just think he has been reeling since the death of the waiter, and it sometimes creeps up and really gets to him. Add to that the lack of closeness with his family - see how he reacted at his party when he couldn't find the presents from his kids - and it's no wonder he had the breakdown he did at the end of S3. And you just know that his admission about the waiter to Roman and Shiv is gonna bite him, as everyone stabs everyone in the back on this show, and now that their plan to take out Logan failed, it will be every man and woman for him and herself again, and they have ammo against Kendall now. Knowledge is power.
2022 has been a very mediocre year for tv shows , which makes S4 of succession that much more welcome
2022 was an excellent year for me despite some duds I saw on HBO and elsewhere. I am looking forward to spring 2023 for s4.
Good call. I didn't even think about that because both Roman and Shiv were so supportive of Ken when they found out. But that was because he was curled up on the ground crying and broken. It seems like the only time they or Logan admire Ken is when he's miserable and broken. Next time he's happy and confident, I'm sure you're right and they'll want to take him down.
Yep, and it is likely they will all take each other down. For as much as a jerk as Logan is (or some other colorful words that aren't allowed here), he pretty much has it right that none of his kids have what it takes to run his company. It feels like we are the viewers are supposed to root for Kendall, but he is a drug addict, terrible at reading people, and even worse at getting people to do what he wants.
I don't feel like we are supposed to root for Ken. The show doesn't seem written to elicit that audience response although we often feel sympathy for him in certain situations. That's an important observation about Logan having what it takes to run a company but his kids not having what it takes. I often have thought about the quality or combination of qualities that separates founders or successful CEOs from the rest of us. It's certainly implausible that you can take one of the children, award them CEO status, and expect them to succeed even if they go through whatever executive training is available. Leadership is a tough nut to crack. I'm not even sure any of the actors playing the kids are capable of an authoratative aura to pull that off a leadership role, whereas Brian Cox effortlessly builds it into his portrayal of Logan.
It gives us peasants a chance to wonder if the ultra-rich really live like that. I suspect they may have toned it down a bit for this series.
