Parasound amps appreciation thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by pdxway, May 31, 2019.

  1. Audiofan1

    Audiofan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    States
    I still remember going from a pair of AQ Columbia rca's to the Columbia Xlr's between my preamp and A21 and the revelation in sound staging, transparency and that emergence from blackness and the way that center image grew was amazing to hear! Ahh!it takes me back!
     
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  2. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
    USA
    If you think your records have a black background, wait till hear CDs! :)
     
  3. Prighello

    Prighello Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Agree xlr seems to work better with these amps. Probably the extra gain? I used to run AQ Columbia as well but recently switched to Zu something or other as the AQs were too bulky with the DBS packs for my cabinet.
     
    Audiofan1 likes this.
  4. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    I am using AQ Black Beauty XLR cables. I had to put my JC on an amp stand in front of my equipment rack. That placement also gave enough clearance to run these slightly bulky cables with. no issues.
     
  5. StratDoc

    StratDoc Sapien

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I have question for the group.

    I currently run dual SB4000 subs using the XLR sub out with a Y-splitter. What benefit, if any, would there be to using the main output L & R connections? I presume the high pass filter will no longer be functional- not problem as I run it full range now. Does it result in stereo dual subs? Do I connect to the rca LFE input on each of the subs?
     
  6. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    That is the similar situation I have with my JC2 BP and JC5. The JC2 doesn't have a sub-woofer out jack at all, so the subs are fed via the main RCA output connections. When my dealer installed my system he said both, the XLR outputs and the RCA outputs were both live on the JC2 BP. You could have outputs coming from each. So the XLRs feed the JC5. For my SB-2000 Pro the left and right channel single RCA cable from the preamp goes to the respective subs. They both plug in to the Left RCA input, NOT the SFE input. Yes the high pass filter on the P6 will be inactive as will the sub level control on the front panel of your P6. You will need to use the level controls on your SB-4000 to set the levels.

    Yes you will have a stereo subs. I asked Parasound if I could use a two pairs of RCA Y-connectors: Stereo out of the preamp to Mono then Mono to Stereo in which case both cables would now have a combined L+R signal. They indicated this would work but they suggested stereo subs would probably work & sound better. I decided to try the stereo subs and I can't really say I can locate the two subs.

    Now this is just something I wondered: I would almost think that on a stereo record where say the upright bass is hard panned to the left or right channel, this might actually be preferred. You will be able to better locate the upright bass because that sub has that bass. This may be totally wrong too. The bottom line: So far after 5 weeks I have yet to hear/locate my dual subs.
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  7. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    If you keep your records clean, there is zero difference in the background.
     
  8. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    If you keep your records clean they don't click and pop, at least mine don't. An added bonus is that records sound more like actual music than cds do. If you can't hear the difference, consider yourself lucky. Records cost a fortune these days.
     
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  9. mreeter

    mreeter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    The exact reason I started Streaming, 'Quality' Vinyl is getting more costly every day :sigh: I can't bring myself to pay $125. or more for One Steps.
     
  10. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    I know. It's getting ridiculous. Friday night, I listened to an early pressing of "Led Zeppelin II", and it had a lot more detail and aural magic than any CD or Qobuz hi-res version of that album that I have heard. It's for that reason that I'm willing to spend. However, it's so hit and miss. When I "hit", I forget about the costs.

    CDs and streaming are wonderful ways to listen to music but if you are willing to bleed money and put in the work to keep everything clean, you will be rewarded with an even more wonderful listening experience. You also need an understanding spouse.
     
    mreeter likes this.
  11. mreeter

    mreeter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I certainly enjoy my Vinyl collection more than anything, I just refuse to pay for the 'next best thing' in new Vinyl releases.
     
    hman likes this.
  12. Jethro B Good

    Jethro B Good Senior Member

    I posted this in a separate thread without thinking about the parasound thread. Just looking for info

    I have been looking at a field of prospective Preamps (to replace the preamp out on my Rotel RA1312) which will provide a definite sound improvement , have a remote and work with my simple input requirements. I am currently poised to click on the Parasound NewClassic 200 Pre. And use or not use an external DAC.

    I have looked both new and used , there is not a lot locally in the stores , or for that matter online in Canada. I also considered the Parasound Zpre3. So little online about this unit. Quite a bit more affordable without a DAC. This is fine because I am happy to use an external DAC. My concern is the sound quality of this cheaper unit.

    I would really love to hear comments from members about these two Preamps.

    Thanks
     
  13. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    sorry I haven’t heard it but really like the specs, and remote control of tone and balance … similar to my P 7 pre.

    I bought that several years ago as a factory refurbished unit thru Audio Advisor (an authorized reseller). If the 200 seems like the best you can afford, and will do what you need, I’d advise looking at AA, Accessories4Less, Safe and Sound, or other such factory authorized resellers of refurbished units. I’ve also bought demo and open box units without issues. Saved considerable money.
     
    Jethro B Good likes this.
  14. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    PS I would advise going for the higher tier pre if at all possible, and get a refurb, open box, or demo unit at an authorized reseller. I’ve also recently upgraded to hopefully my last pre ever, used near mint with extra tubes, thru The Music Room
    Buy, Sell, Trade, Consign Your Pre-owned Hi-Fi - The Music Room … not trying to shill for them, just a satisfied customer. They or another reputable used gear place might have an even better deal on something for a similar price.

    PS again not trying to shill but I’ve bought a crapload of stuff thru Crutchfield. $100 off Parasound NewClassic 200 Pre … I’d avoid the scratch and dent ones tho. I bought MA Silver 8 speakers and they were more banged up than I appreciated. Maybe that was just on those particular speakers. Maybe they can tell you what’s scratched or dented and send pics?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
    Jethro B Good, teag and Wenthrope like this.
  15. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    I have several comments some things said in some of the posts on this thread page about listening to records. On my new system listening through my new JC3+, JC2 BP and JC5:
    • I thought my records had a fairly black background when cleaned with my AudioDesk UCM. When I put my ear up to the speaker I could hear faint background noise. I heard nothing at my listening position 9' away. Then I bought a Klaudio UCM. They sound even blacker even on my old system, This past 5 weeks with my new gear, records now have an even blacker background at the volumes I listen. These volumes are about 10db higher with this new gear. It sounds like the speakers are "sucking the air out of the room". On paper, I will agree CDs can have a much greater dynamic range. But it is wasted in a way because there is no difference at even my highest listening levels. I will not risk my hearing listening any louder. So LPs or CDs black is black - no difference.
    • As for clicks and pops I have the Klaudio UCM which gets the records very clean and a Sugar Cube Click and Pop remover. The Sugar Cube, when playing VG + or better records, most often renders them click and pop free. I now go for days without hearing pops.
    • As for the cost, yes you may have to spend quite a bit of money for records and a vinyl playback system. How much people are willing to spend varies widely. But the vinyl experience can often sound equal to or better that CDs. It can still be better than HiRes streaming or digital files in some cases. Some people call may call it "bleeding money", but everybody is different. I and others may call it money well spent. You certainly can spend less to get good sounding digital playback. You do have to spend more t get vinyl sounding its best, but not necessarily what I spent.
    • Yes the prices of the ultimate audiophile pressings are ridiculous. I totally agree, but I can also understand some of the reasons for this. I am often willing to to pay these prices for special albums. But LPs on Blue Note in the Classic Series sound nearly as good for far less money. There are many labels out there that issue very high quality LPs for $30-S40. Also used records on certain labels are amazing sounding. Used LPs from Verve and Pablo can sound as good as new high quality pressings. With my setup these LPs sound as good as modern high quality LPs.
    • Agreed you have to have a supportive spouse. Mine has become a huge vinyl fan and now get the whole audiophile thing, She now has a level of emotional involvement with the music than she did when we listened to CDs or streaming HiRes Via Tidal or Apple Music. I'm sure some of that is due to the physic nature of the format, the larger sized album art, liner notes, sometime photos and posters. When she met me I had just taken a 30 year hiatus from LPs and she din't know about the added physical involvement you get listening to LPs.
    Now while I generally prefer listening toLPs in my listening room, I am certainly not anti-digital. Digital can sound amazing also. I use it in the car, when taking long walks, working out in the yard, relaxing in the yard or in other areas of my house via streaming. It is the only alternative for these locations and I certainly wouldn't want to live without it. I totally agree people are right that digital files can sound amazing. They certainly do on my new Parasound based system, but given a choice, in my listening room LPs are my first choice. YMMV and that is cool with me. All this gear is so we can listen to amazing music no matter what the format.
     
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  16. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    Well said. I used the term "bleeding money", but I also prefer the sound of records over digital and therefore I "bleed".
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023
    Jethro B Good likes this.
  17. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
    USA
    Great analysis IMHO. I have a question going back to my younger days pre CD, when I bought a lot of records. DG’s classical LPs were the only ones I can recall that were notably quiet, maybe some of the Philipps too. As far as rock and pop, they all had some audible surface noise, not necessarily objectionable, but it was there. Where did it go?
     
    Jim0830 likes this.
  18. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    We now have record vacuums! We have non-frictional sleeves. We have better phono stages. We are also adults, so we take better care of our stuff. I never cleaned my stylus in the 70s or 80s. I never changed my stylus either. Now, after 500ish+ hours, our records get noisy, we change our stylus and they quiet down. We no longer bring our records to parties where they get trashed.

    Here is an example. About 6 or 7 years ago, I sold all of my records. Recently, I found one that got left behind. It is Joy Division's "Substance" and it was well played. On my old gear, it was always noisy. I cleaned it with the machine, played it on my current system and it is pretty darned quiet.

    The worst thing about rebuilding a collection is re-purchasing the good stuff at $25-$40 a pop.
     
  19. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    Thanks. To be honest I got out of vinyl in the early 80's and went all digital except for a few spacial albums that did not come out on CD. I didn't have any classic recording buying experience until I got into CDs. By 1988 I was all in on CDs-Jazz, Classical and Rock. To be honest I can think of at least half a dozen labels with consistently poor quality pressings, but I am struggling to think of any labels that were good. A&M is the only one that immediately comes to mind for excellent quality. Also there was Chrysalis records who were real Jeckyl & Hyde story for me. My Robin Trower albums typically had excellent sound, but I had some titles on Chrysalis that were horrible. I tried to buy a Jethro Tull LP that had bits of metal in them that looked like bits from a Brillo Pad, no doubt from grinding LPs to to make recycled vinyl. I gave up after 3 copies with the metal shavings. Come to think of it, the 70's Fleetwood Mac LPs on Reprise with Buckingham and Nicks in the line up had excellent sound. Reprise tended to have B or B+ sound, but I have a few stinkers on Reprise from that period too.
     
  20. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Have you clicked on the NewClassic 200 pre? I would look forward to your review.
     
  21. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    Reflecting on the bad old days of 70's vinyl pressing quality caused me to do a then and now comparison. I compared my Sansui 9090 receiver which was highly regarded when it debuted in 1976. Many consider it one of the top receivers back in great Receiver War period of the 70's and early 80's. Part of this was due to its ability to drive a 4 ohm load to full power without melting down or tripping the protection circuitry. This happened on many high powered receivers of the era driving loads below 8 ohms. A few magazines actually found the 9090 could drive a 2 ohm load. I thought it was real interesting comparing then and now. Just how far we have come.

    Power 8 Ohms:
    Sansui 9090:
    110W / Channel @ 1khz with 0.2% THD
    Parasound JC5: 400W / Channel 20-20,000HZ with 0.05% THD

    Power 4 Ohms:
    Sansui 9090:
    150W / Channel @ 1khz THD unspecified
    Parasound JC5: 600W / Channel 20-20,000HZ with 0.05% THD

    Frequency Response (Aux):
    Sansui 9090:
    10-30,000 HZ
    Parasound JC5: 5-100,000HZ +0/ - 3db

    Frequency Response (Phono):
    Sansui 9090:
    30-15,000 HZ +/- 0.3 db
    Parasound JC5: 20-20,000HZ +/-0.2db

    IM Distortion:
    Sansui 9090:
    <0.1%
    Parasound JC5:<0.04%

    Damping Factor:
    Sansui 9090:
    30
    Parasound JC5: 1,000 @ 20HZ

    S/N Ratio (Aux):
    Sansui 9090:
    <80db
    Parasound JC5: <111db

    S/N Ratio (Phono):
    Sansui 9090:
    <70db
    Parasound JC5: <87b via JC3+

    Channel Separation (@ 1,000Hz):
    Sansui 9090:
    >70db
    Parasound JC5: >87b via JC3+

    S/N Ratio (Phono):
    Sansui 9090:
    >70db
    Parasound JC5: >87b via JC3+

    Granted this is not an Apples to Apple comparison where I am comparing my top of the line receiver in the 70's to where I was able to go nearly 50 years later with separates. It is amazing. how far manufacturers have been able to increase power and decrease distortion.
     
  22. n'joymusic

    n'joymusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    South East
    For me not cleaning my syli before and after play was a cardinal no no...While the best we could do back then was have a discwasher
    velour pad with distilled water to clean our records before play. As well as the use of a dustbug that was like an additional tonearm
    with a velour roller and brush at the front of the plastic arm. This would track the record as it played cleaning the record surface
    ahead of the stylus.

    Very seldom would there be any debris accumulate on the stylus as viewed via a stylus scope... But clean anyway...


    What is amazing to me is that now and again from time to time we see pics of dirty styli that picked up grit even after
    a record was cleaned by these new automated cleaners...

    Funny as well that my old Shure M75e recommended tracking .75 to 1.5 grams as opposed to today's carts...2 grams
    thereabouts..Even my old Pickering Xv15 cart could track 1 gram...and were talking later 60's early 70's era stuff...

    Well so much for my rant....

    Best wishes everyone..
     
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  23. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
    USA
    Back in the 1980s, I used something called Vac-O-Rec, and some sort of soft carbon looking comb brush. I would sometimes gently wash the vinyl surface in a light soap solution., which is probably a big no-no today. No matter what I did, I still had plenty of clicks and pops, because I think they were caused by flaws in the vinyl and not by embedded dust. I was very careful with my records, and never had a lot of dust. One guy I know, had some liquid that came out from the tonearm, while the record was playing, which was the only device I ever heard that seemed to help. I have not tried any of the new devices, as I no longer have a record collection, but I have to wonder how, if gentle hand washing with soap and water wouldn’t remove whatever grit or detritus was causing the noise, why these modern methods would. I’m not saying they don’t work, I just asking for an explanation how they do it.
     
  24. hman

    hman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northport, NY
    @bgiliberti ,

    I have not had success with any method other than a vacuum based machine. It really pulls the junk from the grooves. I have heard ultrasonic is great, too.
     
    bgiliberti likes this.
  25. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I do appreciate those that love their vintage gear, sometimes I wish I still had mine, heck I still use my R2R deck. But there is no comparison to the specs of back then to now, as easily shown above. For me the biggest improvement has been my analog rig over the past 30yrs.
    My amplification as well is light years better........
     
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