What is it with Discogs sellers? Post your horror stories here...

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by glamorbowie1, May 10, 2021.

  1. SpinIt

    SpinIt Musicphile

    Location:
    Paris, France
    I believe that the feedback system is designed around seller service, and not around grading. For example, one can easily give negative feedback to a seller who is not replying to complaints, but if a seller grades poorly and proposes a 10% reimbursement it becomes quite difficult to leave negative feedback, and the seller gets alway easily with their poor grading practices. In a way, a seller can pressure a buyer in positive feedback. At least, that’s what I felt with some sellers who over-graded and “reluctantly” offered a meager partial reimbursement.

    I ‘m getting repetitive because I’ve already mentioned this earlier, In addition to the existing feedback system, there should be a grading-statistics system. How would you as a buyer grade the record which you’ve just purchased? Then after a while the the seller gets an averaged grading note: Conservative Grader, Accurate Grader, or Optimistic Grader. Up to the buyer to do business with them or not.

    It shouldn’t be super difficult to implement this, but will Discogs do this? I doubt it, because it could impact their sales when quite a few big sellers with big stock fall through,
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
  2. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    Really, the feedback system is supposed to reflect how the buyer felt about the transaction overall. That's why a seller could conceivably have a neutral with a comment like "Fast shipping and great packaging, but the item was not in advertised condition". Or a negative could say "Overgraded". These would not be abuses of the system. And yes, a seller could pressure a buyer to leave positive feedback by offering partial refunds, but the buyer is not required to leave positive feedback as a result. I'll admit that it becomes more difficult for many buyers in that position to WANT to leave a negative at that point. I know I'm much less likely to leave less than a positive if I get the impression the seller is trying in good faith to do the right thing. But ultimately it's still the buyer's right to make that decision.
     
    quicksrt likes this.
  3. SpinIt

    SpinIt Musicphile

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Yeah it’s supposed to work like that. But it doesn’t. I usually buy 3-5 records in a single purchase to manage shipping costs. From my experience a seller status of around 99% has in many cases resulted in multiple records being over graded, if not all. What I see very often is that something is graded VG+ Or even NM when it should be graded VG. Hairlines, crackling very obvious in multiple places, even after a thorough Degritter wash…you get the idea!

    Luckily there are also sellers who grade very well. But it’s a bit a game of trial and error to find them.
     
    astro70 likes this.
  4. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    eBay offers this, along with communication, shipping time and postage charges scores. Sellers need to keep high scores in all categories. I think it might help if Discogs included the option to leave feedback score for grading accuracy. I think more people would be give a more accurate grade even when leaving positive feedback. It grading for accuracy would need to be anonymous though (the same way eBay does it).
     
    SpinIt likes this.
  5. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, of course. I didn't mean that the feedback system was perfect or even that it works entirely as intended. There are problems with it. My post was a response to the statement that feedback isn't designed around grading. I was just saying that grading is indeed a legitimate thing to include into the feedback of sellers.


    I think having grading as an anonymous grading statistic would be great. But I've read that there are ways sellers can figure out which buyers left even the anonymous statistics, though I don't know how they do it. Do you know anything about that?
     
    SpinIt likes this.
  6. jim249

    jim249 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Utah, USA
    If you want to know what is wrong with Discogs now, click on community and then on forum and start reading. It is all there.
     
    astro70 likes this.
  7. SpinIt

    SpinIt Musicphile

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Hm. Not sure how they do that. But maybe it can be avoided by averaging the last 5 or 10 grading feedbacks, and not showing individual ones.
     
  8. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Just had an order cancelled for two discs.
    Seller claimed one of the discs was showing signs of rot.
    The second disc re-appeared in his store at three times the previously listed cost.

    I'm doubting the rot story.
     
    iveivan, jim249 and Dave like this.
  9. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I don't think there's a way for them to know for sure, but when you leave feedback, you do so for all the categories as well as the general one. You can't do them at different times. So if you were to leave positive feedback but grade low on one of the other categories (which are anonymous) it's possible that their overall score will change and sellers can guess that the person who gave recent feedback is also the person who down graded them. It would probably harder for a seller with a high volume of sales as there would be more feedback being posted at the same time.
     
    no.nine likes this.
  10. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Was the second disc priced at far below market prices? A rare one seller didn't realize?

    You can leave Neg feedback on that if you wish. Or a neutral anyway.
     
  11. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    The second was priced at what the previous few have sold for. Nothing particular rare or in high demand - A Jeff Lynne CD single
     
  12. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I meant the original set price (of course). But then he marked it up x3, so it may not move at all now unless his copy is so much nicer than anyone else's. I've under priced before and had the item sell, I go along with it and honor the price. Sounds like there was not a lot of profit loss this seller was trying to avoid. Maybe the rot CD was actually going? And history there on that title? I like to know what goes down.
     
  13. astro70

    astro70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    Yup, I have actually stopped using their daily email notifications about items in my want list being listed. It's really unfortunate because I used to enjoy reading through it each evening after classes or work and sometimes get the jump on something hard to find I'd been looking for a while. Almost every day it's the same overpriced crap from the same seller over and over again. Sedona Antiques is burned into my brain and almost makes me a little angry just thinking of the seller name now.
     
  14. astro70

    astro70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    Back to the feedback discussion, I think it's just about useless on Discogs anymore. I rarely buy of Discogs and when I do, I feel like a P.I. trying to scour the seller's page for any red flags or signs they're going to send me overgraded junk in crappy packaging. I only buy from 100% positive feedback sellers in the first place, but even still, over half, probably close to 75% of my discogs purchases over time have been sent back. I've tried it all. Asking sellers to confirm the condition, asking them what grading scale they used, asking if they've played it, asking for photos. Doesn't matter because it's still a total crapshoot. I never have as bad of luck on eBay, at local record stores, or on here as I do on discogs.

    I eventually got so fed up with the BS sellers were pulling, sending me G or G+ LPs that were graded VG+ or NM that I decided to leave some negative feedback. But then, the seller would almost every time jump on my throat trying to get me to remove the negative feedback, and I've even had retaliatory feedback left calling me a liar, and accusing me of switching LPs with worse copies, etc. So then I end up removing the negative feedback to make peace, but I'll ultimately still be unhappy with the purchase. I've gotten to the point of just not leaving feedback at all unless it's either really spectacular, or really horrible. Providing a partial refund because you sent someone 3 overgraded overpriced records isn't a positive feedback worthy action, it's the bare minimum! Especially when it seems like the seller is a serial-overgrader. It's a lot different on eBay because they sort of have a stranglehold on the sellers there. If you send someone junk, you aren't going to get paid. Not to mention paypal and ebay almost always take the buyers' side. With discogs you don't have any of that backup, it's every man for himself.
     
    headtheory likes this.
  15. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah on Discogs if there's problem with your order there's nothing you can do about it. Basically SOL. Unless of course you just file a claim with PayPal.

    Also, top tip, I wouldn't trust the feedback on eBay 100% either, especially if you are a seller since no buyers can ever be problematic buyers on eBay.
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Ok, so then you are not SOL after all then are you?
     
  17. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    It's been going on for ages and is quite annoying. Part of the problem is the way Discogs works with, usually, larger sellers, inventory and the process to reconcile their inventory across different platforms. Probably didn't describe it the best way but it's been talked about in the official forums. Only way to do it, for larger sellers, is to un-list everything and then re-list it after amendments are made.

    It's highly annoying though as they tend to clog up the wantlist email as well as the "Items I want" section. I always see their junk first and it's easy to miss out on something else. Of course any easy solution would be to fix the inventory issue or perhaps allow buyers to block sellers but neither of those two options will happen anytime soon.
     
  18. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yes my point exactly.
     
  19. mstoelk

    mstoelk Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Iowa

    You are SOL in that you are stuck paying for return shipping. That is free with ebay. So yes, I'd say SOL is a fair assessment. Sure a seller "could" offer to pay for your return shipping, but as a buyer you'd be at their mercy, and considering your dealing with a return because they misrepresented their stock, chances of them all of the sudden doing the right/nice thing seems less probable.
     
    Dave and astro70 like this.
  20. astro70

    astro70 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Illinois
    Yup, you end up paying $5-$10 and get nothing if you're paying to ship it back for a refund. That's one thing ebay gets right IMO.
     
  21. iveivan

    iveivan Prime Sinister

    Location:
    Berkshire
    The feedback system is weird. If someone does what you expect and delivers the product advertised in an accepted timeframe, that should be considered neutral and if they over deliver, it should be positive. Instead, the accepted response to average service is to give positive feedback.

    If someone has less than 99% positive feedback, it’s a red flag.

    I tend to not provide feedback at all unless I have a very poor experience.
     
  22. drmevo

    drmevo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seacoast NH
    I’m pretty new to Discogs, but my experience hasn’t been overly positive. I bought an EU pressing of Kid A a little while back that had bad noise on Treefingers. Not the seller’s fault as it was a sealed record, and they offered a partial refund rather than return, which was OK I guess, although I would have preferred to try a different copy. Fairly neutral overall - I get that the seller is sort of stuck in the middle in that case.

    I ran into a case of what I’m pretty sure is overgrading with my most recent purchase. It was graded NM for both vinyl and jacket, and yet the jacket had a couple of small crease blemishes (which actually doesn’t bother me but it just wasn’t accurate) and the vinyl looked pretty good but had loud surface noise on the right channel on the first track of each side, as though it had been damaged by a poorly set up or worn stylus. Unfortunately it’s Bill Evans Sunday at the Village Vanguard, so those tracks both start relatively quietly and the noise is very distracting. Still waiting to see what the seller says, but it’s disappointing for $50. I hate feeling like I’m being difficult but I just want things as described, and NM according to Discogs is that it plays just about perfectly.

    Obviously there’s no such thing as perfect when it comes to vinyl, and I don’t expect perfection, but NM has got to mean you don’t get a bunch of intrusive noise on two tracks, right?
     
    NumberEight likes this.
  23. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Does the lp look NM visually? Most sellers do not play grade their records and they generally go off the visual grade. The LP is definitely not NM though.

    If the seller isn't playing ball you can always go the PayPal root. Only downside is that you have to cover return shipping now.
     
  24. drmevo

    drmevo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seacoast NH
    I’m not totally versed in what to realistically expect with different ratings, but it seems to me that they are supposed to reflect the playback quality as well as the visual condition. In this case, the record looks pretty immaculate with a quick glance but when you look closely you can clearly see it’s used. However, I don’t think the playback quality issue I’m having is visible. All that said, the seller told me they loved the sound of this particular record, so they’ve listened to it. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for now and see what they say. Thanks for the tip on PayPal.
     
  25. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Technically it is. But many sellers don't play grade at all and just roll the dice. Usually works out for them. :)

    Yeah I've had sellers say the same thing and then when I get it...I figure, either they lied about playing it, played it ages ago and forgot how good it really was, played it recently but didn't really pay attention and were doing other things. People make mistakes though and I've had some sellers say that after listening again they agreed it played less than their original grade. Good luck on this though. Hopefully it'll be an easy thing to deal with.
     
    drmevo likes this.

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