The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

I don’t disagree with your main point, but that example isn’t that good.
A Mac mini is basically a PCB in a box.
While such PCBs are more high tech, they’re way easier to assemble on a production line.
It’s basically fully automated nowadays.
Assembling enclosures and mechanical/moving parts are the biggest hurdle when it comes to production - in terms of automation and QC in particular.

 

I wonder how many parts are still MIJ and just shipped to Malaysia for assy on the G.
The critical details are usually at the part level with machining and material specs.

 

Sorry to break up the great manufacturing debate of 2023… a few pages ago I was discussing the wanting to get a GR and sticking with my Koetsu Black Goldline cart. I’ve figured it is borderline (in the yellow of the graph) for the stock arm. I think I’m going to give the table a shot, and I’m thinking a head shell with 4 more grams should do the trick. Any recommendations for a 11gram or heavier head shell with azimuth adjustment for under $50?

 

Darlington mp7 - an amazing device, you won’t need to think about new phono stage for a while. Only if you want to go MC, then you can opt on for SU-6/7.


I’ve got experience using it with at vm540ml, at33ptg/ii, at33sa.

 

Pats Audio Azimuth Adjustable Turntable Headshell | eBay

I've one of these with my Oc9xml on it, sounds very good imo.

 

Regarding the manufacturing countries. I used to have two Leica cameras, one made in Canada (not true by the Leica snobs) - m4-2 and one made in Germany (the true Leica by the snobs standards) - m6.
The m4-2 was better in many aspects.
I’ve managed to break both, then a guy from China in US had to repair them

 

Point taken... I had an NAD 375bee integrated amplifier that was made in Malaysia and its fit/finish was perfect. ..There are more moving parts, more assembly, more soldering, etc. w/ an integrated audio amplifier, so perhaps that's a better example of why all this whining about MIJ vs. MIM is more about cultural stereotyping than evidence-based thinking.

 

If you can add the KAB fluid damper at some point it will improve the performance of any cartridge on the GR.

 

Perhaps... it's still a PCB in a box though, but with some minor complications like physical knobs... and some bigger parts like caps and a transformer that need to be assembled to the PCB by hand (coils can be wound automatically with high precision).
But turntables are really one of the very few home appliances nowadays that heavily rely on precise mechanical principles... that's why they're relatively expensive to manufacture compared to the complexity of their task (i.e. rotating a platter and holding a cartridge).
The tonearm in particular... its principle is very simple, but it's very hard to automate production of it while maintaining precision manufacture of it.
When it comes to small precision mechanical parts, the only other consumer product I can come up with right off the bat are mechanical watch movements (and yes, the Japanese have proven themselves to be just as good at manufacturing those as the Swiss).

Edit:
I think it's also one of the reasons why turntables tend to hold their value quite well compared to most home appliances (and even compared to most other HiFi components). The manual labour that goes into it is only getting more expensive as most other areas of production become increasingly more automated.

 

Made in Japan is just an incredible engineering and manufacturing culture.
I have Toyota and Lexus vehicles that are 100% MIJ and they are incredible. One LandCruiser was built in 1971 and still holds together nicely today.
My 2006 Lexus sedan has 317K miles. Doesn't burn or leak any oil. Drives like new with very few repairs.

It is the attention to detail and thoughtfulness the Japanese go to extremes that truly are a lifetime experience.

When mfg is moved from this location, people have a right to be concerned with the change.

 

It’s definitly not what i says.
I’ve got a 6 month new MIM GR with 0 default, perfect ! (Not as my 89 SL1200 but almost)
Does anybody could change even a old GR MIJ to mine ?
I don’t think…
I just said that the top of the range (G) should have remained in production in small quantities in Japan

 

Toyotas are pretty incredible for their build quality, I have a few friends with extreme examples of their longevity.

A different example/analogy is the Saab story where they couldn't cut it in their country of origin and got picked up by GM who took the brand out of the ditch.
For the most part GM tweaked the 9000 to be possibly the most reliable Saab built (mainly due to transmissions).
In the end nothing was done right to save the brand but the last of the 9000s were fairly reliable, I have a '97 manual and a '98 automatic (last year made) both in daily driving condition (in rotation).

 

That’s such a shame saab went out if the business. I’d buy one.

 

I think as a company they still exist. 'I think'.
Supposedly they still build aircraft and maybe some industrial equipment in South America.
Not really sure.

 

SAAB AB the former parent and an aerospace and defense company still exist.

 

and now we knoow where you live!!! See you soon! J/K

 

Replying myself 18 months later, to solicit additional feedback on comparing the Marantz TT15 to the GR.
ubiknik provided some useful feedback; would love to hear from others, especially anyone who has directly compared these two tables.
It's probably just a matter of time before I swap out my TT15 for the 1210 GR, but I'd really like to know this would not be a downgrade.
Thanks in advance!

 

No... sorry. I haven't compared them directly. ..But I'll opine nonetheless.

Play an album comprised mainly of piano music. ..Like the one I showed a few pages back called Nick Cave - Idiot Prayer, an album of just Cave playing alone on piano. Albums like this (there are many others, of course) are a torture test for belt-drive turntables as they will reveal their limitations relative to speed stability. All but the very best (and usually very pricey) belt-drive tables will have audible pitchiness. To help you hear and identify it play the same track on both your Marantz and a streamed or CD version. The Technics will have speed stability that will rival the digital version. This is perhaps the biggest audible difference b/w the two tables. Another audible advantage of the Technics is that it likely has less hum and rumble which would be audible during very quiet musical passages and b/w songs. ..And don't forget he removable headshell of the Technics which makes properly mounting and aligning a cartridge SOOO much easier.

Only you can decide if these differences justify the cost to upgrade.

 

Thanks for the reply.
Coming from an old SL1200 MkI w/MkII tonearm upgrade, I really missed the ability to swap carts in and out. That, frankly, is my biggest motivation to go back to a Technics.
I'm aware that DD tables have better pitch stability, and that modern 1200s have much better rumble characteristics. Those would certainly be bonuses, although whether I could hear them is separate matter.
My concern is whether the arm on the GR is the equal of the Satisfy arm on the Marantz.
I understand that a turntable is "the sum of its parts", so comparing arms in isolation isn't the full story or a full comparison. But the arm is key component, so I remain curious about that.

 

Ok back again with another question. I seem to be having some difficulty finding the effective mass of the GR tonearm. My first google search when I entered this thread had a result saying it was 9.3. I have now realized that Technics doesn’t publish the number and that 9.3 may have not included the head shell at all. My understanding is that for the G/GAE its 12 including the head shell and that’s a lower mass arm than the aluminum GR (if I’m understanding correctly)

So does anyone know the number for sure? Because if it’s even 13 (would seem it could be as high as 15) then my Koetsu Black should have no issues with this arm

 

I recently had the Tone Poet Picture of Heath record that a lot of people had a hard time with mostly on side 2.
My experience was that on one setup w/AT OC9XSL ('special' line contact on the Marantz) the cartridge skipped dramatically and kept getting stuck in a locked groove on the latter end of side 2. I played it on another deck with a SAE 1000LT (Shibata) and it sailed through without a hitch (GR with KAB damper).

As it turned out the Marantz tt15s had developed an issue with the tone arm wiring dragging on the arm by sagging down at the back causing an excessive amount of antiskate.

It's too bad I returned the record after recording it because now I don't know if that deck can play through now that the AS issue has been rectified, but I will say that I think the GR with the KAB damper is a very capable setup.

The TT15s is no slouch and the same can obviously be said for the GR, add the KAB fluid damper and use the minimal amount of fluid required (it's very tunable by amount and viscosity of fluid) and the GR is as much if not more of a performer than the Marantz tt15s.
I do all of my jazz recordings on the Marantz and haven't noticed any pitch issues, so both tables being very competent makes it hard to choose one over the other - the ability to swap cartridges easily is of course the big advantage of the GR, with a rigid headshell and better headshell wires the GR excels.

 

I have a SL-1200GR with UPS right now, set to deliver on Monday. I’ll be using it until I can pull my Garrard 301 out of storage and have it re built. I picked up a Musical Surroundings Phenomona II to use as a phono stage ($300 used market) and a metal bodied DL-103 to use for a cartridge (the math seems to add up with the metal body adding some mass).

I’m wondering, what kind of turntable isolation is best? Im on the second story of a duplex on floorboards… I was thinking of a butcher’s block base and then some Isoacoustic Gaia or Puck’s for feet.

Is there a consensus on the best isolation (or no isolation) to get the most out of this TT?

 

They’re silly expensive but I love my Isonoe footers. They work well and considering the quality, they’re a good value.

 

Oh that’s a great idea - i didnt know this product existed. Cheaper that the isoacoustics options. Unfortunately, they seem to be out of stock absolutely everywhere…. Might have to reach out to some suppliers

 

No issues at all here with POH on my TT15S/AT33PTG/II.