Nagaoka Cartridge fans?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DaleClark, Feb 15, 2022.

  1. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    Given the negative connotations of the word "analytical", I would instead say the MP-500 is revealing. It has excellent detail retrieval but retains a sweetness and for lack of a better term "swing" that keeps the presentation always feeling musical, but without the terms we sometimes associate with musical like syrupy or overly smooth.

    I'm currently listening to my MP-500 paired with a Darlington MM-6 I have on loan--the pairing is sensational. The Darlington lets all of the qualities of the MP-500 to shine through and I can't imagine much performance is left on the table at this point.
     
  2. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    What phono cable are you using?
     
  3. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    That is probably a better way to put it. :thumbsup:

    MP-500 is only ‘analytical’ by Naga standards... it’s not ‘dry’ or hi-fi sounding at all. ‘Veil removal’ might be a better way to put it, too.
    .
     
    Merrick likes this.
  4. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    I considered adding in the descriptor that it's like a veil is lifted. It splits the difference--to my ears--between the qualities of a good MM and a good MC. It has the deep, resonant low end and dense textures I expect of good MMs and the airiness and separation I usually associate with MC. Best of both worlds for me.

    From the table to the phono are the built in stock cables, as this table does not have RCA jacks for the speakers and I do not wish to go to the hassle of swapping to new cabling.

    From the phono to my line preamp I am using custom built cables from a friend of mine.
     
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  5. fendersrule

    fendersrule Sixty-minute man

    Location:
    Idaho
    For me it was all about hedging my bet. For my system/setup/speakers, the DL-160 is a better cart with more transparent charactor vs the MP-200 (which is already a nice cart). The DL-160 just supercharged my PMA-1600's spatial nature and dynamic presentation. That left me with two option on where to move up without throwing too much $$$ away experimenting:

    1) Buy a $700 MP-500 and "hope" that it sounds close/or better to my DL-160 in charactor/transparency

    2) Retip the DL-160 with a boron lever and a microridge for $300, then hedge a bet that it will compete or beat a MP-500.

    I chose option #2. All my stuff is vintage anyway, so it just felt better. :)
     
  6. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    Oops, I meant RCA jacks for swappable cables.
     
  7. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Nothing wrong with that… Denon’s lineup is pretty great too (aside from the fact that they killed off the DL-160 about a decade ago), but if you have one and you feel like it has great synergy with your system, why not?

    I myself was very impressed with a Zu-modified Denon 103R I heard once, and if I was looking for an LOMC around $1000-1400, it would be very high on the list.
    .
     
    fendersrule likes this.
  8. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Music is in my soul

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    The SAE 1000LT is a sweet cartridge but just a bit too sweet for my tastes. It is quieter in groove than the MP-200 and is significantly warmer too, sometimes to the point that I feel there is a blanket over the speakers. I have played with VTA and it's sound signature does not change much.
     
    inzite likes this.
  9. JamsOnly

    JamsOnly Senior Member

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I upgraded from an MP-300 to MP-500 months back and couldn't be happier with this cart. Just rolled over 170 hours and it still blows me away, I'll just be switching out the stylus for the foreseeable future.
     
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  10. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I run the 1000e and 1000lt (tested it only upon delivery since I have 1 table) with a luxman E250 using the MC High setting, on my system (luxman L505UX + tannoy arden hpd385) it sounded just a touch on the warm side. Now I run it direct into my luxman SQ38u (on MC high) with tungsram tubes it's even better, tight and fast low end but with just enough sparkle up high. Groove noise wise, I agree, even the E runs quieter in the grooves than the nagaoka for some reason.
     
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  11. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    How would you describe the difference in tonal balance?
     
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  12. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    This was such a great thread to read through. For the past few weeks I’ve gone back and forth on buying an mp-500. It sure sounds like everyone here is happy.

    the only cart that keeps giving me second thoughts is the Hana SL. It’s just about the same price. I’ve heard great things about it. The problem is I can’t seem to find anyone that has heard both.

    i brought the question up on Reddit and was told to consider the Sumiko Ameythest instead. I think it’s just because no one has actually compared these before.

    has anyone here heard both the Hana SL and the mp-500?
     
  13. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Music is in my soul

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    People say the MP-500 approaches MC territory, but isn't this an apples to oranges comparison? Do you have a nice MC preamp or SUT? That would be key, IMO. Even if the Hana came out slightly ahead in some shootout, I would probably still opt for the MP-500 since its stylus is replaceable and can be had for $225. Also, the MP-500 is slightly cheaper through CDJapan.
     
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  14. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I have heard both but not in my system so I do not know how much value my opinion holds.
    The Hana SL that I heard at my friend’s system sounded mellow and balanced, and by balanced I mean that no particular audio frequency stood out. Plenty of details but not bright at all. I think that my Nagaoka produces better low end, more solid and deeper bass.
    But I thought that both were more similar in sound signature than different.
    IMO you can’t go wrong with either.
     
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  15. Pmds55889397

    Pmds55889397 Forum Resident

    I'd say the Hana SL opinions are very divided.
    Anyone which goes up to ML would never go back.
    Also there's hate threads about SL.
    It require a MC stage too.
    I've heard a few Hana and they are overrated IMO.

    I'd choose MP500 or Sumiko Amethyst anyday, otherwise just get a cheaper edition, if you want HO MC, look for a SAE 1000 if you can find it.
    Advantage of being able to replace stylus is another plus.
     
  16. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    thanks for the reply! My phono stage pre is a pro-ject S3 B so I’m able to choose 10, 50, 100, or 1000 or 47k ohms along with 40, 45, 60 or 65 dB gain. I think I should be able to run a LOMC without the need for a separate SUT. I’ve only ever head MM on my set up though. I’d really love to lower the noise floor when starting a record or between songs-with everything powered on and the volume cranked and the needle above the record it is dead silent. I’ve dialed in SRA and azimuth and clean with ultrasonic and still feel there is room for improvement.
     
  17. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    thanks for the reply! Which hana have you listened to? Have you personally heard both true mp500 and the amethyst? How would you compare the two, particularly with sensitivity to surface noise and high end?
    Thanks!
     
  18. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    Since your phono does not have a transformer, chances are you will hear increased surface noise going to LOMC rather than less, because you are adding significant gain to the circuit. Balanced outputs can cancel out some noise, but no guarantee it will cancel our surface noise, and true balanced operation will also raise your noise floor. if you check the specs on the unit you’ll see that the SNR is significantly better in MM mode.

    With that phono I’d recommend sticking with MM or HOMC.
     
  19. Davey

    Davey NP: Rosali ~ Bite Down (2024)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Increased gain doesn't increase surface noise, that is on the record and becomes part of the signal. The increased gain does usually increase the phono preamp noise level. Balanced operation will have no affect on surface noise, which is part of the signal, but it can potentially reduce noise picked up in the cabling.

    The noise when playing records can be made subjectively worse by certain phono preamp designs, there is a complex interaction between the cartridge and the phono preamp, some designs seem to do a better job of making the noise seem separate from the music.
     
  20. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Oh, wow. That's really good information.

    Does that also mean I should be looking at MMs with higher outputs? For example, I was considering the MP500 (MI, but still) and saw that is has a lower output compared to the VM-540ml. (3.1 mv vs 4.0). Obviously thats nowhere near the LOMC level but is it something I out to consider if reducing surface noise is my number one concern? (second concern is warming up the sound and reducing the "bright and shrill" parts of the AT).

    Thanks again!
     
  21. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    That was my thought als0-and my preamp, even at +65 dB, is dead quiet until it touches the vinyl
     
  22. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    For comparison, when I use the MP-500 I have to turn the volume knob approximately one "notch" higher than with the VM540ML. That is, at 3 o' clock rather than 2 o' clock. It's not that huge a difference: Grado Gold 2, for example, is MUCH lower (in spite of being advertised as 4 mV too).
     
  23. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Gotcha. That isn't much at all. Thanks!

    How do you feel the mp500 compares to the VM540ML?
     
  24. Luca

    Luca Wolf under sheep clothing

    Location:
    Torino, Italy
    Slightly more polite and laid back than the Audio Technica, but absolutely not veiled. Very "transparent". As neutral a cartridge as I have ever tried (I only use MM, though). Great tracker, and easy to setup. I suspect its cleanliness and lack of colouring/resonance come from that thin and stiff boron cantilever.
     
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  25. Pmds55889397

    Pmds55889397 Forum Resident

    Definitely and not really a MP500 or Amethyst unless the deck is up to task.
    I'd just get a lower Sumiko, Rainier or a bit higher.
    The Oister series are wonderfull musically cartridges.
    That phonostage is weak link, forget everything about expensive MCs
     

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