Nagaoka Cartridge fans?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DaleClark, Feb 15, 2022.

  1. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Yeah that Boron cantilever is part of the secret sauce, when I read this I immediately thought of the AT MMs that should but don't have that: VM740ML, 750SH and the 760SLC.

    I have a AT OC9XSL which has the same line contact as the VM560 but it has a nice Boron cantilever (so does the ML and SH OC9 variants) and it sounds pretty much all around perfect.
    I have a 740ML and it does sound really good all things considered but it typically sounds like there is too much information in the upper frequency range and it could use being loaded down to like 34k or something like that, I have the capacitance overall at just under 200pf and while it does sound good it just has a bit too much delivery in the upper range, it's a marginal flaw as it sounds very good.

    Somehow I ended up with 3 of those SAE 1000LTs and I must say they do sound good in my system, since trying one out a SAE LT has been on the deck ever since, the one I've been using like crazy has turned out to be a low rider, to the point that it looks like the 'shroud' or whatever it is that the cantilever sticks out of is actually dragging on the lp surface!
    I noticed this about 2 weeks ago but there is no degradation to the sound so I just keep on keepin' on with it.
     
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  2. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    I was not exact with my language. The additional gain necessary for that phono to run a LOMC would further amplify existing surface noise. It would not add additional noise but the perception could be that the noise is more prominent because of the added gain.
     
  3. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I understand, but the music is further amplified by the same amount as the surface noise, so it shouldn't really make a difference. No biggie, though :)
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  4. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    You’re right, that is why I said the perception may be that the surface noise is greater. I found when using a phono that had gain for a LOMC but no SUT or high quality headamp that at LOMC gain levels, the surface noise was far more distracting than at the gain levels for MM despite the music to noise ratio remaining the same.
     
    Davey likes this.
  5. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Considering you two aren’t getting a lot of feedback so far, I think I’m gonna combine your two questions in one omnibus thread elsewhere… sometimes having your Q in the thread title really helps. :)

    Btw Fox, my listening time with the mp-300 was limited, but from what I heard I wouldn’t expect a significant change in tonal balance from your current mp-200 to it… the improvements lie elsewhere.

    However, the mp-500 is different, and I would never characterize its balance as ‘dark’ (your issue w/mp200 + current system synergies)… the 500 sounds very open, extended, and airy in the upper registers while being incredibly clear.

    (Not
    excessively bright though, if that’s what you want (a few ppl do)… very close to neutral, rather. Won’t necessarily band-aid a really ‘dark’ system, but sounds so good it’ll make you fix the dark in order to hear it properly. Maybe a bit more treble energy than other Nagas, but not dramatically so… more a different kind/quality of treble, if you kinda follow.)

    Omnibus thread: Nagaoka MP-500 vs Hana SL vs Nagaoka MP-300 — Anyone heard at least two of these?

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
    punkmusick, 5-String, Dafox and 2 others like this.
  6. billb51

    billb51 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hudson NH
    I'm looking for an MP500 stylus , haven't found anything under $295 .
    Anyone know where I can get one for $225.
    Currently using it with sme non improved tonearm and td124 turntable , match made in heaven .

    Thanks
     
  7. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Under $200, but might take a while ... there's also a few listed on ebay from Japan for under $230 with free shipping, though you will pay US sales tax too ...


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  8. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I bought a MP-500 stylus from eBay a few days ago priced at $229 shipping from Japan included.
     
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  9. billb51

    billb51 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hudson NH
    thank you , I'll order today.

    I'd like to say I have the MP500 on my sme tonearm for more than 2 years and have no desire to change it.
    I also have a Dynavector XXII mk 2 that was sent to soundsmith mounted on Lustre 801 tonearm that I will try soon .
    I noticed the MP500 stylus is a little low , have about 500 hours on it but it still sounds good.
    Thanks again
     
    Merrick likes this.
  10. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    If you use paypal for Japanese orders, generally best to pay in Yen and set it to have your bank do conversion, but depends on bank, mine does market rates with no charge whereas paypal charges.
     
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  11. billb51

    billb51 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hudson NH
    Thank you , I ordered at ebay , best price when you include shipping.
     
    5-String likes this.
  12. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Merrick likes this.
  13. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Music is in my soul

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    I have put back the lowly MP-110 back in the rotation today and am scratching my head why it has taken so long. I think part of the reason is the "fat shaming" that goes on around here because of the MP line having a .4x.7mm elliptical stylus shape on all their carts save the MP-100 (conical) and the MP-500 (line contact). However, Nagaoka diamonds seem to be a cut above the rest. When you get to the MP-150, Nagaoka advertises a "highly polished super-fine" nude diamond that is quite different than what's on the MP-110. According to this site, the MP-150 even has "a diamond stylus with a smaller tip radius, enhancing its ability to navigate demanding passages with greater precision and accuracy." When you get to the MP-200, you also get a boron cantilever. I think Nagaoka has to work on clarifying how the MP-150, 200, 300 are not just "fat ellipticals", because some will think they'll ruin their records if they run these carts, which I think would be a shame since Nags are so euphonic. I pulled this chart from Amazon, which clarifies things well for the most part, but what the heck do they mean by "ellipse"? How is this designation any different than calling the MP-110 an "elliptical"?

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    Anyone who thinks a Nag will ruin a record doesn't deserve to own either.
     
    Dr. J. likes this.
  15. tim185

    tim185 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I am due to replace a 2m bronze.
    Anyone compared one of those with a Nagaoka - anything, and can speak of the differences?
    Thanks.
     
  16. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    I have the red and the blue, and the 110 and the 200. Both of those Ortos are great but, to me, fatiguing after a while. I know lots of people love them--this is just me. The transients have harsher and more pronounced edges. Very angular. Like playing Tetris. Nags have softer edges and more warmth. Like laying your head down on a pillow. I can listen to both forever without fatigue. I like the Ortos for about an hour and then need to switch. Obviously, that's just my take.
     
  17. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    How would you compare the bass on those carts?
     
  18. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    I have an Ortofon 2M red, bronze, and a Nagaoka mp200, my favorite of the 3 so far is an older Ortofon 2M Red. I find the bronze to have a refined sound but too bright and lacks bass, the mp200 has a relaxed sound but is too soft and is missing bass. The bronze has 15 hours on it, the Nag 30, perhaps they will sound better with more hours on them. Looking at getting a Grado Opus 3 next.
     
  19. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    I'd have to do an AB to give a more detailed analysis, and the truth is that I don't listen to the Ortos very often, but the high level impression is that with the Blue the frequencies stay in their respective lanes more clearly, and the Blue controls and articulates bass more clearly, and keeps it apart from the other frequencies, so you can listen to it as if it were a separate stream. The Nags blend more (which to me seems more natural).

    I saw a YouTube review that said the Blue and MP-200 sound very similar. I really disagree with that assessment.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
    Dafox likes this.
  20. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    Interesting. My impression of the red is that the bass is kind of all over the place and swallows up the mids. The blue contains bass much more and has much more articulated mids. Also, the top end on the red sort of dominates. I feel like I'm eating dark chocolate with a bunch of sprinkles on top. The blue is more of a layered cake,
     
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  21. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    Just edited my response--most of what I said applies to the Blue more than the Red. I think the Red is a bit sloppy. Fun, but sloppy, a bit like the Wharfedale Lintons.
     
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  22. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Thanks for that.
    I like the bass on the Red, and the upper bass/lower midrange weight it provides, the red is a bit unrefined. Perhaps it's a synergy and hearing loss thing for me, my system has a darker sound that I prefer and I have high frequency hearing loss. I will probably get a Blue at some point, hoping it will be a more refined Red.
     
  23. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    I like the bass on the red, too. It's fun and kinda natural sounding. The bass on the blue feels like it's in a box.

    Btw, if you like warmth and an organic sound (I do), I think you'd really love both the 110 and the 200.
     
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  24. Dafox

    Dafox Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Anyone want to trade their Ortofon 2M blue to me for my Nagaoka mp200 for a few weeks?
     
  25. mrkrinkle

    mrkrinkle so long and thanks for all the fish

    Location:
    USA
    My bad, didn't realize you had the mp200 already.
     
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