Jack Kirby - King Of Comics

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Purple Jim, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    That's an opinion with which I disagree strongly. Although the ideal would have been if they'd hired Wood to ink the Fourth World books (he wanted the job, but they went with Colletta).
     
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  2. N. Parkinson

    N. Parkinson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Someone who thinks background cyphers in Smurfs cartoons are as significant as the Silver Surfer or Dr Doom is confused themselves; expect no rational thought from them.
     
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  3. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    This year I bought "remastered versions" of all the Thor drawn by Kirby. I remember buying the first three dozen or so appearances from the newsstand and when Hercules appeared onwards seemed a peak for both Stan's grasp of the scope of the character and his universe and the blossoming of Jack's artwork (spurred I think by the Tales of Asgard series demands). The story arc with Pluto really seems a zenith, some of Jack's panels were just stupendous!
     
  4. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    From roughly 1965-68, Kirby was at his peak. I may have mentioned it above, but, for me this was Kirby’s zenith on Thor:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. N. Parkinson

    N. Parkinson Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Truer ever day!
     
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  6. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    I have to ask why on Earth would they choose Colletta over Wally Wood?
     
  7. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    An excellent album, if you're into the style:

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    According to Mark Evanier, by the time Wood applied for the job it had already been assigned to Colletta. He notes that DC probably would have favored Colletta over Wood anyway, because his page rate was lower, and "For a time there, DC liked to try and balance the cost of a high-priced pencil artist with a low-priced inker. The savings were not great — just a couple bucks per page — but they tried to do this whenever they could."
     
  9. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    Although everybody rags on Colletta, his finest work was with Kirby on Thor. It helped that Kirby was at his peak of course, but regardless, the work is truly memorable.
     
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  10. Steve Baker

    Steve Baker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbia, Maryland
    Thor, Silver Surfer and the Fantastic Four were classic Jack Kirby. I was heartbroken when he went to DC. Stan Lee should have bent over backwards to keep Jack in the Marvel Universe.
     
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  11. Mooglander

    Mooglander Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mesa Springs, CA
    I don't see why. Jack's Fourth World was his best overall work. "DARKSEID IS!"
     
  12. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    What an absolutely horrible reason!!
    So basically it's because at the time DC was cheap! I still can't buy it because they could have given Wood one of Kirby's Fourth World books. He would have been perfect for THE NEW GODS, I really wouldn't want him on any but let Colletta have THE FOREVER PEOPLE, and let Royer have MISTER MIRACLE.
    I just remember it being badly inked.
    The work inked by JOE SINNOTT is very good, nothing helps the Colletta stuff, all I see is how he destroyed Kirby's pencils.
    YES! New Gods #7 THE PACT is as good as anything Kirby ever did and Kirby himself said it was his very favorite work of all he had ever done!
     
  13. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    It wasn't 100% cheapness. If you read the posting from Evanier I linked, he notes that both Carmine Infantino and Sol Harrison thought Colletta did a "terrific" job of inking Kirby. He mentions that Frank Giacoia was also available but they chose Colletta. Not everyone has the same opinion of Colletta's work as we do.
     
  14. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    I still think they could have given different books to different inkers.
     
  15. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    This is one of Kirby's best two-page spreads, I can just imagine the pencils and what it would look like inked by a much better inker like Wood or Royer...
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Best? A tad overrated and it never really reached a satisfying conclusion (sales)...
     
  17. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I wish I had a lot more of the '70s Jack Kirby Marvels, some I did have once, but others I didn't get when they were still very affordable. In the early '80s he was published by Pacific Comics, one of the first smaller publishers with new color comics and I bought pretty much all of them (if I found them I bought them anyway, I may have missed one or two). He had a genuinely huge imagination! I would think he probably read a lot of science-fiction, but where did he get the time? I think a lot of people at the ages they first encountered his comics were nowhere near ready for his level of work, I know I wasn't... I remember as a kid looking at a then old Fantastic Four #77 (as well as a Neal Adams Deadman comic) and both were way beyond my comprehension or reading ability, but now I find his comics were often the real solid gold. Where Steve Ditko's work was quirky and charmingly very eccentric, Jack Kirby comics are often major brain food! It's our loss he was sometimes undermined by the cheap nature of the form. I do think he needed a scripter collaborator (as opposed to boss) and Wally Wood or Dan Adkins inking (as with Ditko) was the ultimate, with Joe Sinnott not far behind! A major creative artist in a second-rate medium in America, and he raised it more than any other single individual.
     
  18. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    Nothing overrated about it, Kirby's Fourth World is some of his absolute best work! DC was BRAINDEAD not to let him continue!
    Comics have never ever been so-called second rate! It's always been a very creative profession with masterful creators! Jack Kirby was indeed one of them!
     
  19. brucewayneofgotham

    brucewayneofgotham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bunkville
    Kirby was great at Marvel
    But at DC he established himself as the GOAT
     
  20. sotosound

    sotosound Forum Resident

    Not every has always viewed comics as first rate.

    In the UK, back in the 60s and first half of the 70s we didn't have superhero comics, and Marvel and DC were only read by a few people, some of them possibly viewed as 'nerdy'. When you hear someone talking about "Superman and Lewis Lane", you know that these comics and characters aren't widely known.

    Also, looking back at Superman and Batman comics of the fifties and early-to-mid 1960s, a lot of these could probably still be viewed as disposable. No deep meaning or striking artwork there.

    And our own homegrown comics back then were largely aimed at children and even more disposable.

    Wind the clock forward half a century, however, and Marvel and DC are woven into the fabric of 'western' society; and suddenly my collection of Silver Age comics is genuinely worth something.

    Plus my granddaughter recently enjoyed reading a pile of Colan/Shores Darevil comics.

    As with popular music, comics from 50+ years ago are still "relevant" to younger generations, and it's only in retrospect that a 'disposable' product is now being viewed by the wider population in terms of the intrinsic merit that was always there.
     
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  21. Mooglander

    Mooglander Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mesa Springs, CA
    I tried to get into Captain Victory but it read like a parody of his earlier SF, especially the Fourth World books at DC. The dialogue was really hammy and Jack's art felt rushed compared to the exquisite visuals he laid down in the 1970s. But I was happy for Jack because he actually made some money from it (though the Schanes brothers would lose their shirts just a few years later, leading to a woefully early demise for Pacific Comics).
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2023
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  22. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    There's good and bad in everything but you make my point, the merit, creativity, and masterful creators were always there. The profession of making comics has always had all three.
    Kirby was losing his eyesight during that time so it's still amazing that he turned out the work that he did. The dialogue never bothered me because I looked at it this way, who could say how beings from another world would talk.
     
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  23. Mooglander

    Mooglander Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mesa Springs, CA
    His visuals weren't quite the same years earlier when he returned to Marvel, but he was his typically awesome self on the 2001 comic. IMO, Captain Victory looks the way it does because he spent a few years beforehand working in animation, having been fed up with the comics industry. Some of the characters' names and dialogue are really corny, I'm afraid. But I'm glad he got a healthy payout for that venture.
     
  24. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    I don't look at the dialogue that way. Kirby's sight was fine when he returned to Marvel the Eternals is proof of that, it really started during his Captain Victory/Silverstar years.
     
  25. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    He began to have problems with his eyes in the late 60s (see Evanier's book). Quite when it began to have an effect on his art, I don't know for sure, but I find his work - especially on figures - begins to loosen up in the late 60s, but withbout losing any of his power. I don't think his work on his return to Marvel is any wekaer than his later years at DC. My favourite Kirby stuff by far is on Thor and the FF, especially 65 onwards, though I love his work on 60s Captain America, Sky Masters, Race for the Moon and the little amount of work he did on Surf Hunter and King Masters
     

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