Nagaoka MP-500 vs Hana SL vs Nagaoka MP-300 — Anyone heard at least two of these?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cyclone Ranger, Mar 15, 2023.

  1. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    I’m sadly starting to get the feeling that no one here has heard both a Hana and a Naga MP-500 or 300. :(
    .[/color
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  2. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    My experience is 100% the opposite with respect to tracking, but only when I use vintage higher compliance designs from Shure, Stanton and the like. They have far, far superior tracking to any moving coil (or anything else for the matter) at only 1.0 gram VTF. The best I’ve ever experienced is the Shure V15 VMR, which with its microridge stylus will out-track and out-trace anything, ever. Stanton is close, but the Stereohedron stylus tip is not quite as fine as the MR.
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  3. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    yeah, it does feel that way. Which seems odd! They are both such popular carts at pretty similar price points. But maybe that’s why. People upgrade to one or the other, maybe.
     
    unityofsaints and Cyclone Ranger like this.
  4. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    I think the Hana SL and ML are quite good. That is a quite old design from Excel, and was previously used on the SAE 1000 and the Adcom XC in the early 80s. I have the SAE 1000LT from the eBay fire sale recently. It is about the same as the Hana SL, and I think it’s very good.
     
  5. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    You probably meant to say Hana SH, the SL is the lower output/lower impedance version. The SH version has a little higher impedance than the SAE 1000LT, but similar design.
     
    snorker likes this.
  6. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Most phono cartridges are old designs.
     
  7. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    I'm going to have to buy/try a Hana before long, it's escaped my clutches to date, and have always meant to try one. But the same on the Nagaoka 300/500 too... I still have a 110 in the drawer I tried, great cart for the price, but it was purchased at the time I was in (rapid) upgrade mode and was supplanted in short order. :)

    So many nice carts, so little time... and money. But all three of these are in that same class as many other carts I've bought - mid priced, tons of bang for the buck.
     
  8. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    And then either stick with them or massively upgrade to something entirely different (like ‘elite’ LOMCs) because they’re basically satisfied with the Hana or Naga… no ‘lateral move’ messing about.

    It’s a theory, anyway. But sadly one that reduces you to listening to YouTube clips hoping to get enough of a sense of what each cart really sounds like… or relying on sometimes unreliable online reviews. :(
    .
     
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  9. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Yes, exactly right! The Hana SH is the same, or similar. The cantilever is a bit different as well I believe, but they're very similar.
     
  10. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    …or Reddit threads, apparently. :)

    Nicely done, Grant.
    .
     
    Grantmethepower likes this.
  11. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The issue with the Hana carts is extracting the best from them requires extreme care in setup. Very minor adjustments can be the difference between mediocre and great sound. I sat at Acoustic Sounds and listened while they setup a Hana EH on a VPI Scout owned by one of their employees. They were doing it by ear. It started off sounding nothing special—about what I had come to expect from other $400 cartridges. By the time setup was completed, the EH was sounding better than it had a right to for anywhere near its price point. I realize that sounds like some Stereopile hyperbole but that’s the truth. In fact, by the time I left there I was doubting the value proposition of anything above an EH/EL. Thing is, they probably spent a good couple hours getting it dialed in, starting and stopping the same record tracks dozens of times.

    For those wanting to align a cartridge according to a jig, set the tracking force and call it a day, the Hanas are a poor choice. Those audiophiles are better off with cartridges like the Denon 103R.
     
  12. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Haha! Yup! Gotta cast a wide net sometimes. Also, having hounded a few forums it has become clear that each place has its own sets of preferences and ideas and getting multiple takes seems to make sense. I’ve found the people here to typically be more willing to spend on the high end and have more experience and Reddit more often than not has people newer to the hobby. Both, I think, are valuable resources! Plus I’ve been around Reddit a lot longer lol.
     
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  13. Paul_In_WA

    Paul_In_WA Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Do you recall what exactly they were changing?
     
  14. gumsrave

    gumsrave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo
    I have the MP-500 and the Hana SL, both used on the stock arm of a Technics SL-1200G with KAB damper.

    My subjective experience goes something like this:

    Hana SL - rich midrange, mid-bass bloom, treble detail but not so much extension, soft bass, quite a 3D presentation

    Nagaoka MP-500 - transparent midrange, neutral, more extended treble and bass, a flatter 2D presentation

    (This lines up pretty closely with Shibata vs Microline styli reports I’ve read, so I wonder how
    much of the difference is that.)

    For me, the Nagaoka is the one I keep coming back to (almost time for my third stylus replacement). I find it more versatile than the Hana, so it works well for an eclectic record collection. I like the Hana best with acoustic, minimally produced music.

    Happy to answer any questions!
     
  15. gumsrave

    gumsrave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo
    If some needle drops would help, let me know what you want to hear. My Discogs.
     
  16. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Holy crap, it’s a miracle!!! *faints* :faint:

    Seriously though Gumsrave, thanks much for sharing this, and I’m sure you’ll get multiple follow-up questions on Hana SL vs Naga MP-500.

    Much appreciated! :agree:
    .
     
  17. gumsrave

    gumsrave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo
    Fire away!

    I’m listening to records for the rest of the afternoon so do let me know if you’d like a song or two recorded with both carts (my 500 needs a new stylus but it’ll give you a flavor of the differences).
     
    Grantmethepower likes this.
  18. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Great (and very helpful idea)! But I'll try to leave the specific requests to the two guys in the process of upgrading, aka Grant and DaFox. :thumbsup:

    Or, anyone else here who is actually very highly interested (Helom? etc).
    .
     
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  19. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Btw, well-recorded rock like Dire Straits or Pink Floyd is often a good place to begin (if you have it).

    I’m hittin’ the hay (it’s past midnight here in California). Thnx again.
     
    5-String likes this.
  20. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Thanks so much! That’s terrific feedback!
    Which of the two do you find reduces surface noise (not during songs, but just noise floor during lead in or between songs?)

    you do make me wonder about the shibata vs ml, though. Have you heard the Hana ML at all?
     
  21. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Where in Cali are you? I’m in LA!
     
  22. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock Thread Starter

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    NorCal… Silicon Valley.
    .
     
    Grantmethepower likes this.
  23. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I am just curious, as I also use a MP-500 with the Technics 1200G, would you mind sharing your settings (vtf, vta, etc.)?
    Thanks!
     
    Grantmethepower likes this.
  24. Grantmethepower

    Grantmethepower New Member

    Location:
    California
    Also-it sounds from your description like the Hana has a “warmer” sound but the Nag is more detailed and has clearer treble. Would you say that’s an accurate interpretation of what you hear?
     
    5-String likes this.
  25. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    just wanted to call out for someone else's settings to work for others (e.g. VTA), things like head shell and mat needs to be considered also. cheers!
     

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