Jack Kirby - King Of Comics

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Purple Jim, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I would say for America the business practices were often second rate (how creators were treated) during most of Kirby's career along with the paper quality and retail prices. There were good things as well as bad things about that. Comics were seen to be near the bottom rung in publishing for decades, ephemeral in nature, I guess puzzle books, horoscopes and coloring books as well.

    I supported the Captain Victory and Silver Star comics when they first came out, as they put creators upfront and first more, even if ultimately they might've paid less based on lesser distribution and sales. The direct sales to specialist shops had a down side as well as an upside; it was more responsive to the audience but the audience didn't always support quality, and a speculative collector thing for historic events and limited edition variations became a lot more the tail wagging the dog.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023
  2. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
  3. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I would say part of the reason comics are dying now is the cost. I would prefer cheap newsprint and cheap comics if it meant children could actually afford them. Put them back on newsstands and convince stores.

    They can always be reprinted in prestige format later for people who want a better presentation.
     
  4. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I have a fondness for the newsprint four-color and cents priced comics most. If I'm going to downsize it's the newer albeit better printed comics I'm most likely to shed. But... I have seen comics so badly printed from the later '70s/early '80s (or I got the tail end of the press run) then that were not as readable. Somewhere there has to be a balance. From the artists' point of view, at least the ones who put in a lot of effort at quality, seeing it lost by really cheap printing must've been discouraging. A wider base of affordable and accessible stuff for young readers would seem to be the best plan to ensure there still are comic books (or any adult readers and/or collectors) in the future. I got 'hooked' via early '70s Disney and DC comics at 20 cents a pop initially.
     
    Jim B., Exotiki and Mooglander like this.
  5. From things I’ve read, comics have sold record numbers in recent years. One of many links on this:

    Comic Book Market Size, Share, Growth & Trends Report, 2030
     
    Mooglander likes this.
  6. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    In my opinion Kirby's work on 2001 series and Treasury are some of his strongest ever. And while Mike Royer and Frank Giaocia are more than capable. I can only imagine how the pages would have sparkled under Joe Sinnott's hand (A man can dream)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The 2001 Marvel Treasury is particularly breathtaking (in price too, you'll need to fork out at least 100$ for a copy these days if not more) But man does it look fantastic.
     
    Purple Jim, smilin ed and beccabear67 like this.
  7. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    We had very cheap black and white reprints of Marvel stuff in the 70s, until they started distributing them properly. Legend has it they used to print the 'pence' version first to get that sent off then swapped the pence price for the cents price, so perhaps we got the best copies.
     
    beccabear67 likes this.
  8. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Traditional Marvel and DC are being completely overtaken by Manga. Because it's cheap, either in hard copies or digital. Print runs are at an all time low for traditional US comics. Some titles as low as 15,000 to 20,000. Back in the old days titles would be cancelled if they fell below 50,000.

    Manga is also attractive as there is less political nonsense. They just announced DC are cancelling the new Robin series as it fell out of the top 200 it seems. This was the book where they have suddenly made Robin gay after 30 years.
     
    Exotiki and nutsfortubes like this.
  9. Interesting, I’ll dig deeper. The article I linked to shows US sales increasing, I wasn’t aware that there is such a huge Manga audience here in the states.
     
  10. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    I saw an ad for a book teaming up all their gay characters! I've seen some crazy-ass ideas for team-ups, but this one.....I can't imagine what explanation they can have for this! It's almost funny....almost.
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  11. sotosound

    sotosound Forum Resident

    I couldn't see the point in buying these when the originals were still being imported from the USA. However, not every newsagent stocked them, and a lot of kids were probably unaware of what they could buy if they wanted to.

    The US originals tended to be on rotary stands in newsagents. There were DC and Marvel comics in the lower half of the stand, and soft porn mags in the upper half. I can't deny that once or twice I bought something from the upper half of the rack, either. The one magazine name that springs to mind was Parade. These days, what it contained might not even be viewed as porn. Not sure how I feel about that!

    What I did come across in 1970 in a stand on the beach at Bude in Cornwall was Silver Surfer #1. I am sure how I feel about that! :)
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  12. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    The point - for my friends and I - was that we could get the older stories from the 60s that we hadn't read and - after a short period - they'd all be in crisp black and white
     
    sotosound likes this.
  13. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I have seen videos people in the US have filmed in bookstores on YouTube. The section for Manga is like 10 times that of Marvel/DC.

    Even here, I have a local Waterstones bookshop. It's pretty small but they have a wall of graphic novels - 3/4 Manga 1/4 Marvel/DC/Image.

    I was very surprised as I have never got into Manga and had no idea it was so popular. But bookshops don't lie, they must know what sells.

    Back in the day I had a pull list of maybe 40 titles a month. 30 Marvel, the rest DC, Image, some indies.

    These days I struggle to find half a dozen titles worth reading with good art and story. It's really bad. The art in most modern books is awful and the writers seem poor. It's all being propped up by the whole variant cover gimmick - amazing covers but terrible books. People are just buying covers these days, they don't even read the books. lots of sexy women or just Batman in some random pose.

    Back in the day the big artists were those doing the actual stories - Kirby, Romita, Ditko, Byrne, Miller, up to Jim Lee, Silvestri etc etc.

    Now the famous artists just do covers, never the story, with some rare examples.

    Manga is fine but the DC/Marvel side is in real danger. The product is so poor.
     
    czeskleba, trumpet sounds and Shawn like this.
  14. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Marvel had no distribution for a while in the UK, I guess to give Marvel UK a chance. Those issues are pretty rare in the UK, for example Amazing Spider-Man around 170 to 190. The UK versions came out just a few months after.

    We do have the bonus in the UK of lots of Mark Jewellers versions as these were sold on the airbases at the time.
     
  15. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    Reading about B&W comics made me think....I love B&W comics. Back in the day, there were numerous books featuring the great artists in B&W. Don't know if they're made anymore. My thought is; you know how there's a whole generation(s) that won't watch a movie simply because it's not in color, I wonder if comics has the same problem. As in the movies, they're losing some great, historic, art simply because it's not in color!;)
     
    Mooglander likes this.
  16. SmallDarkCloud

    SmallDarkCloud Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Not to point fingers, but a good deal of manga has that "political nonsense" (and has, for decades now) and it outsells Marvel/DC by wide margins. Many American graphic novels for kids that aren't super-hero oriented also have "that stuff," and they're very popular, as well. I'm a librarian. I see it myself. That's not the issue.

    One major issue is that the best new talents for superhero stories - the Mike Allreds and the Mike Mignolas - are smart enough to not work for Marvel or DC when they can own their creations and work for a smaller publisher who won't demand ownership. Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko and many others did not have that luxury. Both Marvel and DC haven't been able to retain great artists (aside from occasional contributions) for years now because of the corporate ownership issue.
     
  17. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    Coincidentally, I was rummaging through some older books and came across a Marvel B&W, the #1 issue of The Rampaging Hulk, drawn by Walt Simonson and Alfredo Acala, great stuff! Marvel had a quite a few B&W books but I don't recall any done by DC. Too bad, I woulda been all in on seeing DC B&W's!;)
     
  18. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Yep. Both my kids read Manga, and don't go near anything from Marvel or DC...
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  19. Mooglander

    Mooglander Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mesa Springs, CA
    I'm a serious fan of all things black-and-white, and I can talk about "those '70s mags" all day long!

    Marvel followed Warren Publications (who were joined by Skywald and other entities) into the b/w arena, and all of them produced reams, literal reams of fantastic material. While DC never did, they did publish excellent horror and SF content in their respective anthologies, helmed by the top talents of the day — Wrightson, Adams, Kaluta, etc.

    In recent years, some boutique publishers have resurrected b/w comics, with Warrant leading the charge with Shudder, a mag in the style of the Warren line.
     
  20. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Bretagne
    In the 60s too with B&W reproductions in comics such as Wham! and Pow!
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  21. muzzer

    muzzer Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Trivia point I’m sure not news to you, Neil Tennant was the editor for want of a better title of the Marvel IK black and white reprint series in the 70s. His own weekly soapbox - ITEM! Fwiw I love Marvel. Very glad I bought a load more as a grown up before the MCU turned prices silly. And Jack Kirby’s art is the absolute dogs’. I can still remember the vert first art of his I ever saw - which was in the Mighty World of Marvel iirc, Latveria. FF#86 or so. X.
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  22. sotosound

    sotosound Forum Resident

    I believe that issue #1 of the Spectacular Spider Man back in 1968 was in black and white.

    Issue #2, which I own, was in colour, and it's just as well as it featured the Green Goblin.
     
  23. muzzer

    muzzer Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Didn’t that series start in the 70s?
     
  24. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Yes, I have a run of b&w Marvel reprint, Hulk is the lead, but they have the Coming of Galactus storyline as backup. Didn't lessen my enjoyment as a kid missing the colour.

    I don't understand the value of some of those now. Say the ones that reprint ASM 129 or Hulk 181. To me they are just reprints, not the first appearance of the Punisher or Wolverine. The first appearance is the US version, not some UK reprint a year or whatever later.

    Sure they are cool to own but shouldn't cost what they do. Certain people seem obsessed with foreign versions of Marvel and DC but can't see what is really valuable.
     
  25. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical omnivore.

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I used to have one of the British B&Ws with part of the first Wolverine appearance from The Incredible Hulk. It was the only way to read it at one time without paying a lot if you hadn't bought the original before it became valuable... sad if that option is gone but there are various reprints of it now (I grabbed the facsimile editions when they appeared). Kirby comics in B&W are still pretty amazing (as well as Kubert, Toth, Wood...)

    The Dave Gibbons Doctor Who Marvel comics in B&W are the original editions; it's the color U.S. comics of it which are the reprints. :cool:
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine