One Discogs' Sellers Perception of "Media: Near Mint" CD Grading

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by patient_ot, May 24, 2023.

  1. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    When the overgrading plague started to take over Discogs' used vinyl market a few years ago, I cut back on used vinyl purchases and started to refocus on my CD collection, filling in gaps and seeking out particular versions of CDs that are hard to find elsewhere.

    Generally speaking, I've had a lot less problems with CD sellers on Discogs, but have still had some frustrating experiences.

    Here is a picture of the play side of a CD that arrived from a European seller, marked "Media: Near Mint". Additional info from the seller stated the "cd is as good as new".

    [​IMG]

    Now, scratches can be hard to photograph due to my limited equipment and lighting issues, but this CD is littered with scratches on the play side. In what universe does this pass for "Near Mint"?
     
  2. Ken Dryden

    Ken Dryden Forum Resident

    A scanner would have produced a clearer image.

    In any case, G+ to VG- is the best grade range for this CD.
     
    no.nine, Strat-Mangler and Dale A B like this.
  3. Turnaround

    Turnaround Senior Member

    Location:
    -
    "Not Mint" at the very least.

    Annoying are grading like "Near Mint, except for ...". I am bugged by listings that advertise, "Plays Mint". People just want to get the word "mint" in there somehow, someway. Like saying, "I went to the Harvard University ... of central Pennsylvania"

    What was the seller's feedback like? I once bought a mint/near mint CD that had a lot of fine scratches. The seller got very angry of being accused of bad grading when I messaged him about it. After I sent the item back, the seller actually sent me a message saying he looked at the disc, and I was right. I think he just missed one, maybe looked at it under dim light or assumed it was as clean as other things from his collection.

    [​IMG]
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    100 percent positive. That doesn't mean anything though. It's very easy to game these feedback systems IME. Anyway I sent the seller a note with the picture. Waiting for a response.
     
  5. Ace-Spacely

    Ace-Spacely Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I've had my share of issues with grading on eBay and Discogs. I get a chuckle when I read statements like "Condition is mint with the exception of....." -- HELLO! Then it's not MINT!

    I got an LP from Discogs that the seller described it as "Near Mint" - when I got it, the cover was pretty worn and the record looked like it was used as a frisbee. So I had to return it.. For me, going to a USPS to return is a pain as the only one near me has zero parking and I don't feel I should waste my time and drive 30 minutes to another one just because some seller couldn't grade accurately.
     
    Brian Lux and patient_ot like this.
  6. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Especially vexing when you have to pay for return shipping because someone doesn't know how to grade properly. I just did that very thing recently. 5 bucks down the drain.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  7. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Sounds like the CD was buffed. In normal daylight, it can look mint. But bright light usually reveals the scratches.
     
  8. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Or excellent condition for its age, which usually means something like the OP's.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  9. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    I'm down to G or even Fair. Looking at the circular scratches, it might not even playback without error.
     
  10. Iving

    Iving 'Neath Kishmul's walls

    Location:
    UK
    I'm very happy to see all these threads pop up - the ones about dismal buying experiences on Discogs. Makes me feel like I'm not alone. Especially the grading issue. Why does it have to be old skool to expect NM to be NM.

    The main problem is that the feedback system has no teeth at all. Sellers fear being at a disadvantage against other Sellers if they grade properly.

    Opposite is true on eBay. All the dodgy Sellers have migrated to Discogs over the last 10-20 years. If you're up to no good, you can get away with it on Discogs.

    Plus ... Discogs just interested in ad. revenue now. Unlike this wonderful Forum!

    I hope that people keep complaining like billy-o until things improve, or Discogs dissolves in its own toxicity as a trading platform.
     
  11. Ken Dryden

    Ken Dryden Forum Resident

    If there is a mark visible on the playing surface, that automatically reduces it to VG+ at best. If someone sent me a NM CD that had a small mark or two outside the playing surface, I would likely live with it. It is like getting a CD with a promo imprint or a small hole in the upc, that will not interfere with my enjoyment of the CD though failure to mention those facts mean the seller’s description was inaccurate.

    There are some online businesses like Decluttr.com that are a real crapshoot. When you sell to them, they demand NM CDs, booklets, tray cards, digipaks and sleeves, no promo markings, sawcuts or hole punches are allowed. Rejected items are not returned to you. But their quality control lets a lot of items in poor condition into their inventory. I have received a 10 CD set minus its booklet with one badly scratched CD, a 3 CD set that substituted a different CD on another label, water damaged booklets and tray cards, very scratched CDs, CDs with promo imprints, hole punches or sawcuts, booklets with writing in them, etc. When you request credit for a purchase, often you are told to discard it, but they reserve the right to request its return and ask you to enclose your postage receipt, which requires getting a duplicate copy to retain as proof. More than once they failed to refund the return postage and I finally won the battles for a refund. I got fed up with the limited search function of their website, since you can’t search by record label, a real time saver for me, while their prices have skyrocketed to the point that you can find the same item at a lower price elsewhere, even with the free shipping they offer.
     
  12. Ace-Spacely

    Ace-Spacely Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    To me, NM to me is opened and played once, no marks.. M is sealed. VG+ has the sleeve scuffs. VG has scratches. Anything below a conservative VG+ I ignore.

    I also question the sellers that note the thing is "Minty" - because there's always a caveat with that.. "It's Mint but...." Well then it's not mint..

    I bought a couple of high priced items from "Stickermania" on eBay. He described them as "Minty" - when I got it, it was far from that. Long scratches, gunk I couldn't wash off the vinyl.. It was crazy.. He's not a cheap seller by any means and the stuff he lists are rare but I was really disappointed. Another one on Discogs is "Nancybuddy" - she can't grade anything to save her life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2023
    patient_ot likes this.
  13. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Plenty of sketchy sellers on eBay as well.
     
    eddiel likes this.
  14. Iving

    Iving 'Neath Kishmul's walls

    Location:
    UK
    As a proportion I think far, far less a %. Anyway - if "not as described" etc then dealing with the problem is much easier on eBay.

    Plus - there is the business of expectations. eBay is just a generic flea market - whereas Discogs is music-specialist, the site parades all sorts of resources with implicit expertise - and these VG = NM Sellers love to be associated with that, thinking themselves "professional".
     
  15. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    One of the record collectors I follow on social media literally makes posts every week with deceptive eBay auctions. I've had bad personal experiences as well. eBay is not a silver bullet alternative IME.

    FWIW I have been buying both CDs and vinyl online since the days of Musicstack and GEMM, and when you had to complete transactions by phone or mail. Overgrading is worse now than it ever was IME, and the platform doesn't necessarily matter either. Again, IME.
     
  16. Iving

    Iving 'Neath Kishmul's walls

    Location:
    UK
    I must have bought a handful of records and about 200 CDs in the past 2-3 months. I use Discogs only where last resort or strong reason such as availability and I "must" have it.

    Vast majority of CD purchases were on eBay - mainly tbh musicmagpie. Sometimes I get wrong or overgraded CDs - but musicmagpie are volume Sellers - I accept it goes with the territory - it's not personal - and if there is a problem it gets resolved immediately - often automatically refunded if below £ threshold. musicmagpie are great - they even send nice messages. I find them much better than their stablemate worldofbooks. I have not had serious issues with private sellers on eBay of late.

    Most items I buy arrive fairly quickly if on eBay. Usually take much longer if Discogs.

    I bought 2 LPs on Discogs. Both were described as NM. They were VG+ at best - scratched and dirty. They were not trivial value. I messaged Seller politely enough saying not NM. He argued. I argued back. He left pre-emptive negative feedback. I'm not the kind of person to leave negative feedback on any platform unless someone is really taking liberties. He also messaged with implicit violence. Big mistake. I could not deal with him in person, so I made sure there were other consequences. Never had anything like it happen on eBay.

    I've had plenty of other truly presposterous experiences on Discogs. Like Sellers thinking it OK to sell CDs without original inserts etc and not even saying they're missing.

    As a trading platform Discogs is a sewer. There are one or two flowers growing in the sludge. But really it is a sewer.

    Considering the sheer # sales on eBay vs. Discogs, the threads popping up on SHF about Discogs are much, much, much greater in proportion against eBay. That is only right and proper. Yours is one of them. I'm happy that you complained as already stated.

    If Discogs weren't such a huge info resource, I'd like to see them go down the toilet. I don't even wish that on M0F1.

    I have been a dealer for a long, long time. I know my way around these platforms. I feel sorry for the younger folks who gleefully buy detritus on Discogs described as NM. Those younger folks be like, "oh so this is NM" - and away we go - the whole physical media collecting thing becomes/has become a joke. Mainly thanks to Discogs.

    So I think it's really, really right and good that people talk about their dissatisfaction with Discogs - both here and anywhere else where it might make a difference - eventually.
     
  17. Ken Dryden

    Ken Dryden Forum Resident

    Musicmagpie is the parent company of Decluttr here in the US. Glad you haven’t had any trouble with them.
     

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