Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: Katy Lied

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mdekoning, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    Let's move on to the one that's probably my favourite. Here's what I have:

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Keep posting, the other albums have been moved to the top as well.
     
  2. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    MCD 01800 / DMCL 1800
    Distributed by BMG Ariola
    Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764

    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0
     
  3. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thank you. Here's an updated list.

    KATY LIED

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3:
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
     
  4. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    This is the Steve Hoffman version!

    I have the same disc, but my matrix differs very slightly:

    Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2

    The IFPI number is in a very thin band, so is very hard to read, but it certainly looks like L022 to me, there is no way my copy has 0764, I'm sure of that, and the IPFI code appears between the cat. no. and DS2. The DS2 part is on the opposite side of the disc to the Sonopress part of the matrix. EAC levels match Mastering 3.
     
  5. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    An updated list:

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2
     
  6. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    This is really the exact same disc. Both "IFPI L022" and "IFPI 0764" appear in the matrix (at different radii) on my disc. Let's not make this more complicated than it is. :)
     
  7. Slipperman87

    Slipperman87 Active Member

    I think the real challenge is to find the unremastered Roger Nicholis version
     
    mando_dan likes this.
  8. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    I'm not trying to complicate things, and I stated that my disc was the same, but since we've had entire threads on the matrix numbers for a single Pink Floyd pressing, I thought I'd pass the info along and let the OP decide what he wanted to do with it. We've now uncovered 3 minor variations for this one particular pressing, and you can bet that some here will claim that the one with a certain IFPI code will sound better! :)
     
  9. Slipperman87

    Slipperman87 Active Member

    EAC is the key
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    My disc has "IFPI L022" in the thin band as well as yours, as I posted above. What minor variations are there?
     
  11. anduandi

    anduandi Senior Member

    I wonder which masters were used for the recent SHM-cds.
    I thought they always used the last available version which in this case would be the remasters.
    If they were using an early version I might be tempted to upgrade, because my experience with SHM-cds is that they sound really good, when the masters used for them are good (like for Steely Dan's "Definitive Collection" which sounds wonderful to these ears or Camel's self-titled debut album).
     
  12. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    You wrote: 'Both "IFPI L022" and "IFPI 0764" appear in the matrix (at different radii) on my disc.' So, that must mean we have three versions: one with just 0764, one with just L022 and one with both?
     
  13. Dr. Merkwürdigli

    Dr. Merkwürdigli Active Member

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
  14. Dr. Merkwürdigli

    Dr. Merkwürdigli Active Member

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Anyway; this is the EAC levels from one of my disc.

    97.7/97.7/92.0/97.7/97.7/97.7/77.4/90.2/87.2/97.7

    Looks like a level shifted Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):

    250 494-2 MCAD-37043, disc made in Switzerland, Matrix: W 250494-2 1124 477 1 *
     
  15. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The IFPI codes identify which Laser Beam Recorder (LBR) was used to cut the glass master, and which plant's injection molding machine pressed the disc. In the case above, the L code identifies the LBR, while the 07 code identifies a Sonopress pressing. It is possible for discs to be pressed at one facility using stampers that were made from the glass master cut at another facility.
     
  16. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    An updated list:

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2

    Mastering 4 (Steve Hoffman's master, turned down a bit??):
    97.7/97.7/92.0/97.7/97.7/97.7/77.4/90.2/87.2/97.7

    MCA Switzerland 250 494-2 MCAD-37043 / Matrix: W 250494-2 1124 477 1 *
     
  17. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    I've added my Japan for USA copy (Mastering 3):

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2
    MCA Japan for USA MCAD-37043 DIDX 373 (full artwork) / Matrix: MCAD-37043-U2E14

    Mastering 4 (Steve Hoffman's master, turned down a bit??):
    97.7/97.7/92.0/97.7/97.7/97.7/77.4/90.2/87.2/97.7

    MCA Switzerland 250 494-2 MCAD-37043 / Matrix: W 250494-2 1124 477 1 *
     
  18. DennisF

    DennisF Forum Resident

    Is the EAC of that one listed here?
     
  19. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    This is the Hoffman version I have.

    I also have the following, which I believe might be the original Nichols:

    MCAD-31194 (Compact Disc Compact Price/Plaid-back)
    Total disc time: 35:31
    Made in USA/Mfd for BMG (D100406)
    Matrix: IFPI L239 D100406 1J11
    (I'm assuming there's a non-BMG version of this disc, as well)
    Peaks: 85.5/95.0/94.9/86.1/88.5/98.1/96.1/88.5/90.9/94.5

    Would anyone want to volunteer hosting a database with all the known Steely Dan CD mastering info on it? All the different peak levels, matrix numbers, disc timing, manufactoring details, guesses as to who mastered them, etc? These sorts of questions seem to pop up on here every so often, and it might be nice just to have one centralized location where people can look and see what pressings they might have.
     
  20. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    I'm keeping all the info in an excelsheet on my harddisk, except for the total timing as I think differences there are not important as long as peak levels match.

    Anyway, here's an updated list:

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/98.1/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2

    MCA Japan for USA MCAD-37043 DIDX 373 (full artwork) / Matrix: MCAD-37043-U2E14

    Mastering 4 (Steve Hoffman's master, turned down a bit??):
    97.7/97.7/92.0/97.7/97.7/97.7/77.4/90.2/87.2/97.7

    MCA Switzerland 250 494-2 MCAD-37043 / Matrix: W 250494-2 1124 477 1 *

    Mastering 5:
    85.5/95.0/94.9/86.1/88.5/98.1/96.1/88.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA USA MCAD-31194 (Compact Price/Plaid-back) Mfd for BMG (D100406) / Matrix: IFPI L239 D100406 1J11
     
  21. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

  22. My Citizen set has the following EAC levels, which disagree with those posted above (my "Bad Sneakers" has 93.9; might the above-reported 98.1 be an error?):
    84.5/93.9/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    I also have a mastering "5", matrix number "MCAD-31194-1 1C MFD BY JVC", with the same EAC peak levels as reported above:
    85.5/95.0/94.9/86.1/88.5/98.1/96.1/88.5/90.9/94.5

    I ran a null test on a smattering of the tracks, and those I checked turned out to be either digitally exactly 0.1 dB louder than Disc 2 of the Citizen box set, or digitally identical to Disc 3 of the Citizen box set.
     
  23. PaulT

    PaulT Spuzzum

    Location:
    B.C., Canada
    MCA USA MCAD-31194 (Compact Price/Plaid-back) / Matrix: MCAD-37043-A4E same as Japan for US

    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    Some of those Compact Price/Plaid backs have the same matrix numbers as the Japan for US discs (across the entire MCA set of Steely Dan discs).
     
    bxbluesman likes this.
  24. Dave W S

    Dave W S New Member

    On the back: MCAD 31194 DIDY-373; artwork (not plaid)

    On the disc:
    MCD 31194
    DIDY 000373

    "Made in USA Digital Audio Disc Corp" around hub. Matrix: DIDX-000373 3

    100/99.9/93.2/100/100/100/78.1/90.9/88.7/99.8
     
  25. mdekoning

    mdekoning Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thanks for all the updates. My Citizen mistake for "Bad sneakers" has been corrected, thanks for pointing it out.

    KATY LIED

    Mastering 1:
    98.4/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8/98.8

    MCA Remaster 1999 MCD-11916 / Matrix: MCD-11916 00088 111 916-2 01 (Made in Germany by Universal M&L)

    Mastering 2:
    84.5/93.9/93.8/85.1/87.5/97.0/96.1/87.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA Citizen boxed set MCAD 4-10981 / Matrix: MCAD 4109812 Y1D3A MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 3 (Steve Hoffman's version):
    100.0/100.0/94.1/100.0/100.0/100.0/79.2/92.3/89.2/100.0

    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix:SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A, DS2, IFPI 0764
    MCA MCD 01800/DMCL 1800 (Distributed by BMG Ariola) Matrix: SONOPRESS I-5630 / MCD01800 A IFPI L022 DS2
    MCA Japan for USA MCAD-37043 DIDX 373 (full artwork) / Matrix: MCAD-37043-U2E14
    MCA USA MCAD-31194 (Compact Price/Plaid-back) / Matrix: MCAD-37043-A4E

    Mastering 4 (Steve Hoffman's master, turned down a bit??):
    97.7/97.7/92.0/97.7/97.7/97.7/77.4/90.2/87.2/97.7

    MCA Switzerland 250 494-2 MCAD-37043 / Matrix: W 250494-2 1124 477 1 *

    Mastering 5:
    85.5/95.0/94.9/86.1/88.5/98.1/96.1/88.5/90.9/94.5

    MCA USA MCAD-31194 (Compact Price/Plaid-back) Mfd for BMG (D100406) / Matrix: IFPI L239 D100406 1J11
    MCA ?? / Matrix: MCAD-31194-1 1C MFD BY JVC

    Mastering 6 (another level adjusted Steve master?):
    100/99.9/93.2/100/100/100/78.1/90.9/88.7/99.8

    MCA USA MCAD 31194 DIDY-373 / Matrix: DIDX-000373 3
     

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