Bill Evans OJC vs. XRCD vs SHM-SACD (Bill Evans Trio - Definitive digital versions?) *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Kimo, Feb 3, 2009.

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  1. Kimo

    Kimo New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio, United States
    I have read opinions on the board of both the Evan's XRCDs and the OJC cds quality in general, but remain unsure.

    Are the Evan's XRCD releases worth the extra cash, or should I just go with the Evan's OJC cds? Thanks.
     
    Kimo, Feb 3, 2009
    #1
  2. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    Location:
    THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT, NEW MEXICO USA
    Gos SACD, they are wonderful.
     
    therockman, Feb 3, 2009
    #2
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Can you be a little more vague? What albums are you exactly talking about? Each one is different..
     
    Steve Hoffman, Feb 3, 2009
    #3
    audiomixer likes this.
  4. Kimo

    Kimo New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio, United States
    Waltz for Debby
    Portrait in Jazz
    Interplay
    Moonbeams
    Explorations
    How My Heart Sings

    As selected from your list of OJC recommended titles, which by the way has yielded much profit for my listening on titles such as "New Blue Horns" and More Swinging Sounds. (Great sound, great music, and I likely would have never given a listen but for your list, thanks.)
     
    Kimo, Feb 3, 2009
    #4
    Vinylbeast likes this.
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Moonbeams
    Explorations
    How My Heart Sings
    Live At Village Vanguard
    wonderful on XRCD..
    The others get the OJC.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Feb 3, 2009
    #5
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  6. Kimo

    Kimo New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio, United States
    Great. Thank you.
     
    Kimo, Feb 3, 2009
    #6
  7. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands, EU
    The American issue of The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961 (3 CDs) sounds great to my ears, better than the OJCs and XRCDs of Waltz for Debby and Sunday at the Village Vanguard - those albums are included in their entirety and I've compared most of the tracks that they have in common.

    Amazon

    [​IMG]
     
    J.A.W., Feb 3, 2009
    #7
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  8. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    :righton:

    I got mine a few months back from Amazon.com for $18! Wonderful set. I can't imagine it sounding better. At least not on my system.
     
    Jerry, Feb 3, 2009
    #8
    garrincha and dennis the menace like this.
  9. Jerry

    Jerry Grateful Gort Staff

    Location:
    New England
    I like my Japan for Japan Portrait In Jazz ('85 Gastwirt) slightly better than my OJC CD. But they both have that annoying high-frequency ringing from god-knows-where.
     
    Jerry, Feb 4, 2009
    #9
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  10. MilesSmiles

    MilesSmiles Oenologist

    Location:
    Now reporting from the 305
    I'm missing the Moonbeams XRCD, is this still in print?
     
    MilesSmiles, Feb 4, 2009
    #10
  11. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands, EU
    Steve was referring to the first XRCD issue with the sturdy cardboard gatefold cover, JVC VICJ-60214, which was mastered by Alan Yoshida at A&M Mastering Studios, Hollywood, CA. It's long OOP.
     
    J.A.W., Feb 4, 2009
    #11
  12. MilesSmiles

    MilesSmiles Oenologist

    Location:
    Now reporting from the 305
    Hans, many thanks.
     
    MilesSmiles, Feb 5, 2009
    #12
  13. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Senior Member

    Location:
    San Clemente, CA USA
    True and this has to do with the fact that with XRCD, you have to know the ones mastered here in Hollywood by Alan Yoshida. He was head and shoulders better than the mastering engineers from Japan that worked on XRCD. The Yoshida mastered XRCDs are excellent. (IMO of course.)

    cheers,

    Joe
     
    Joe Harley, Feb 5, 2009
    #13
    Dignan2000 likes this.
  14. roberts67

    roberts67 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Hello!

    I have the XRCD of At Shelley's Manne-Hole and really dig the sound on it. The playing is some of my favorite Bill Evans. The liner notes say it was mastered by Alan Yoshida in Hollywood. Peace. Robert
     
    roberts67, Feb 5, 2009
    #14
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Agreed, but it's not on the OP's list.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Feb 6, 2009
    #15
  16. roberts67

    roberts67 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    Hello!

    Yes, but it should be! Peace. Robert
     
    roberts67, Feb 6, 2009
    #16
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yup, agreed.. Bill Evans At Shelley's Manne-Hole is a great live album..

    Even though some thoughtless engineer turned the album title into "Bill Evans At Shelly's A** Hole" on the tape box.. :sigh:
     

    Attached Files:

    Steve Hoffman, Feb 6, 2009
    #17
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  18. Parkertown

    Parkertown Tawny Port

    Location:
    Parkertown, Color-ado
    Thanks for the pic Steve. I remember you telling us about how someone had "altered" the title of the album. I'm not sure if you posted the pic before, but that's so funny... :D
     
    Parkertown, Feb 6, 2009
    #18
  19. nightenrock

    nightenrock Forum Resident

    Wouldn't changing it to Bill Evans In Shelley's Manne-Hole have been easier?

    What kind of club name was that anyway? I mean come on, Shelly was asking for trouble naming it that.
     
    nightenrock, Feb 10, 2009
    #19
    DrJ likes this.
  20. rjstauber

    rjstauber Senior Member

    Location:
    Friedrichshafen, Germany (and Grand Rapids, MI)
    How about the early "Everybody Digs Bill Evans" XRCD, is that also one of the good sounding ones?
     
    rjstauber, Feb 10, 2009
    #20
  21. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands, EU
    Yes: JVC JVCXR-0020-2, mastered by Alan Yoshida at A&M Mastering Studios, Hollywood, CA.
     
    J.A.W., Feb 10, 2009
    #21
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Full of distortion and piano overload on original tape so I'm confused what you mean by "good". Do you mean a good, honest transfer of a troubled tape? If so, yes.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Feb 10, 2009
    #22
    C6H12O6 likes this.
  23. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    What is it about pianos from this era? Even Rudy couldn't record them well. They're often times distorted and usually have a weird, midrange heavy sound to them.
     
    Jamie Tate, Feb 10, 2009
    #23
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The piano is always the hardest instrument to record. Back in the day, it always showed the flaws in any recording system. Usually you had a Neumann mic hooked into a mic pre console that wasn't compatible with it. You got overload (listen to BILL EVANS title mentioned above). When everything matched correctly there was no overload distortion but then engineers like Van Gelder or Ray Fowler, Jack Higgins, etc. wanted the piano to sound "better" or louder or more able to cut through. So they started EQ'ing the keyboards and running it through a separate compressor, putting the mic right inside the piano, etc., still with overload or the sound of cardboard. Never worked for these guys because they didn't understand that in order for a German mic to "do piano", ya needed SPACE between the mic and the instrument. These small studios didn't want leakage, etc. so they couldn't or wouldn't do it. Columbia or RCA in their big ol' rooms in the late 1950's didn't have this problem and they recorded the piano just like they did in the 1920's, from a short distance (sometimes taking the lid of the piano.)

    Listen to a Duke Ellington VICTOR from 1932. Nice, natural piano sound, no distortion, no overload.
     
    Steve Hoffman, Feb 10, 2009
    #24
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  25. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Location:
    Groningen, Netherlands, EU
    To avoid any misunderstandings: Everybody Digs Bill Evans was recorded for Riverside by Jack Higgins at the Reeves Sound Studios, NYC. Apparently he also used the technique Steve is talking about.
     
    J.A.W., Feb 10, 2009
    #25
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