Steve's Analogue Productions Blue Note SACD/CD Sound Quality Discussion Thread

The wonderful thing about this series for me is discovering new titles. I am new to this genre of music, so most of these titles are brand new to me. Take for example Leeway. I love this disc. I have listened to it seven times already. It is a brand new album for me. I love Leeway and I am looking forward to other "new" titles that I will be listening to in the next 5 years or so that it will take this series to come out.

 

I fee the same way Rockman... I think this series of jazz os hitting me at just the right time in my life. Just the right age. I still like my rock n roll, but I find myself enjoying jazz for the first time.

What a way to begin the journey eh?

 

You're in the position I was 20 years ago. Fun isn't it.

For me, I love the fact that these wonderful albums are now available in the two highest resolution consumer mediums around - 45 rpm vinyl and SACD. As a jazz fan I can't ask for more.

 

I hate changing the speed on my turntable, plus the cost of the 45 rpm series turned me off so I have been waiting patiently for the SACD series. I just recieved my first two from Jay & Marie at ebay (got 'em for under $50 shipped!) : Leeway & Capuchian Swing. I must say that these are living up to thier expectations. Someone commented on the Leeway disc sounding compressed - hell no! This is one the best sounding Blue Note recordings I have heard. A great choice for release. I simply cannot wait for the Impulse releases to hit. You think these sound good? Just wait for "Black Saint & The Sinner Lady" from Mingus!!

 

On another note. Does anyone know if you can buy these SACD titles cheaper anywhere (than Acoustic Sounds)???

 

There was quite a bit of compression used on these recordings but they sound great and the mastering is top notch.

 

Capuchin Swing is on the way to me and I plan to buy about 2/3 of the titles. Blue Trane will be my next purchase.

 

Hi Jamie,

Yes, Rudy did some compression during the original recording sessions. Some sessions more than others.....especially when he was recording Art Blakey. (The stories of Rudy's battles with Blakey are legendary.)

But Rudy then added more compression when he mastered for LP. As I've said many times, I think Rudy was very clever about the way he used compression and eq in the 50s and 60s considering the playback systems of the day.

Why he uses so much additional compression on the CDs he has been mastering for years is a complete mystery to me. Sure they "play louder" but why on earth use so much for jazz sessions like this?

Steve and Kevin do not add any compression at all on either the 45rpm LPs or these SACDs. The master tapes, even when RVG added compression, are quite dynamic when compared to any released version.

cheers,

Joe

 

I was listening to Whistle Stop on the way home yesterday and noticed how much compression was used during recording. I wonder which unit he had. It was similar to the sound of an 1176 (even though they didn't exist yet). I guess a Fairchild or some other vari-mu compressor could've had the same fast attack characteristics. Are there any pictures of Rudy's control room?

 

Just got my AP Blue Train SACD, my initial observations parallel those of the rockman. I compared the redbook layer to my trusty TOCJ "88.2" BN Works version, the MoFi and the King LP.

I am floored by how natural this all sounds!

Steve's version is possibly closest to the mastertape, the harmonics and decay now sounds natural, the reverb around the horns is less "fake" sounding. The dynamic range is much bigger, you really need to "turn up the wick" to "get" everything.

THANKS STEVE and KEVIN and Chad/AP for reissuing this series

However, I see this as almost an alternative interpretation of the "Blue Note Sound", and I would definitely understand why some might prefer the more stylised/forward sound of the original BNs or Ron McMasters/Classic Recs/Toshiba-EMI.

In fact, as an apartment dweller with "sensitive" neighbours, if I were to pick a version for late night listening, it would probably be one of the earlier issues, or find an amp with a "loudness" compensator...

 

Any word on when additional titles will be issued?

Thanks!

 

Given how long it took the first four to appear, I wouldn't be holding my breath.

 

Page 50 of the latest Tone Audio magazine (issue 20) reviews the first 4 AP releases. None too kind.

 

Yikes!

Hmm, wonder why there's such a difference.

 

No one's blaming either you or Kevin.

 

Tone Audio's evaluation of the AP SACDs surprises me, I am going to buy that Blue Train and have a listen and see for myself. That definately has my curiousity up. I haven't heard any of the first four available, so we will see.

 

Maybe someone should write a letter in to them, telling them of their misunderstanding of the facts?

 

I think the AP SACDs sound great personally. Not quite as good as the 45 LPs (what does?), but the best on digital format. Chad, Steve and Kevin did a fantastic job on these.

 

I admire ToneAUDIO for the honesty (most internet publications just write favourable reviews so they can continue to get free review copies), but that review is very superficial, and it is hard to believe the SACDs sound significantly different from the LPs.

I only have the SACDs so I cannot compare, but I don't hear that "the high end of these discs is somewhat on the crunchy, brittle side".

 

Critics should have a "Public profile"!

 

Well, I think this review just reflects exactly what I mentioned back in post #32 in this thread...many (if not most) vinyl playback rigs are highly colored and depart considerably from neutrality. I'm not making a value judgment about whether that is a good or bad thing, but it is simply the case, and is by far the most likely thing to account for reviews like this one. If people had set up their vinyl rigs for as close to neutral playback as possible (which is my personal preference), they'd find the SACDs and LPs of these titles sound nigh on IDENTICAL, which is just as you'd expect based on the info Steve provides above about how they were created. I still prefer the vinyl a bit more - which probably is due to a slew of nice associations I get from vinyl (childhood memories, the bigger cover art, etc) and also reflects that there is a bit of residual coloration in my vinyl playback rig that I happen to enjoy - not that the SACD is "inferior."

 

What SACD player did Dan Babineau use?

 

Another good question KeithH...as I recall his SACD player is not listed in the "review" (which is a very short little blurb, not a full fledged review).

I was just reminded recently at how very different sounding various SACD players can be when I was comparing the sound of different discs in my 3 SACD players for kicks...my reference Marantz SA-7S1 (which is what I play Steve's AP SACDs on of course) was consistently the most musical and balanced and simply "right" sounding. My other players (Sony SCD-c333ES and Denon DVD-3910), while both excellent, departed significantly from neutrality to my ears - the former being on the relaxed, darker, less detailed side, the latter on the more lively, detailed side with a hint of brightness on top...if the reviewer was using a player that presents things like the Denon that could certainly account for the comment about "crunchiness" on top, which I don't get with my reference player.

I wouldn't say the differences between SACD players are as dramatic as between, say, phono carts, but they are still quite immediately noticeable in a transparent system and can affect impressions of the way a disc supposedly sounds.

 

Or, it could be that most have better analog playback compared to digital and when you couple that with a superior medium it makes for superior sonics. Who knows.