Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - Come Dance with Me (released 1959)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by serge, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. serge

    serge Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    (MODERATOR'S NOTE: Please see the note prior to post #5 below.)

    Listening to the original come dance with me 9 oclock label... such good stuff.. I know this is a bit off topic...I don't have the reissues but I'm just very happy with the originals...
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Is that a 9 o'clock mono or stereo?

    Matt
     
  3. serge

    serge Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    It is labeled a mono (W-1069) and sound is mono.
     
  4. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    I'm very interested to hear the 'Come Dance' samples page, once it's complete.

    It's one of my very favorites of the Capitol years, and another of those with sonic 'issues' e.g. that vocal overload distortion in 'Something's Gotta Give.'
    I love that song, but when Sinatra gets to those lines "So, on gauuuuuuurd!...I'll try haaaaaard!" that distortion really sticks out.:sigh:
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    (PLEASE NOTE: This thread is the result of "splitting" a former rambling omnibus of a thread that attempted to cover new reissues of three titles on Capitol Vinyl (2009): IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS, COME FLY WITH ME, and COME DANCE WITH ME. The former thread still exists, and is the place to discuss those new Capitol pressings, SPECIFICALLY.

    This current thread, from this point, picks up from post #122 from that old post. My post (#122) was as follows:

    <<There is a new samples page up for "COME DANCE WITH ME!" (Recorded 1958, released 1959, nominated for Album of the Year.)

    Have a listen, and let's get some good comments going. 10 selections; lots of fodder for discussion. See here.>>


    At this point, discussion commenced regarding the posted audio samples. I happened to be the first to post a comment:)[/I]

    <<Does anybody else think of this when they listen to samples 7 and 10?>>
    Rudolph-with Clarice.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2014
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    OK, I'll be the first to jump into the water. My initial take on all 10 samples:

    1. Definitely a unique, wonky stereo mix. Reverb on right channel only.
    2. I like it. Some reverb; not too much, IMO.
    3. Slightly different, wider mix than #2? Better tone? (Especially in the bass dept. to my ears -- but I like #2, too.)
    4. Drier, a little brighter. I like this one, too.
    5. Same mix as #3, but tone not as full/warm. Dull to my ears.
    6. Sounds like a "wetter" (more reverbed) version of #4. Not bad.
    7. May just be the pressing, but it sounds like FS's nose is congested.
    8. I like it. Channels are reversed compared to the other stereo mixes.
    9. Mix sounds a lot like #2. Not as wide/separated to my ears. Nice tone.
    10. Very similar to #7. Not very good to my ears.

    Matt
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    By the way, one of the 10 samples of COME DANCE WITH ME that I've posted is the new Capitol vinyl. :) My initial reaction is that if you are going to get one of the three new titles based on sound quality, COME DANCE WITH ME is the one to get.

    [2016 moderator update: New link: Come Dance with Me - recorded 1958 » ]

    Regarding Bob's post above, I have to concur. I just recently purchased SFYL/SE on CD (finally), in the Walsh incarnation, and thought the sound was really lacking impact. It was like shaking hands with somebody when they just put a limp hand out there, you know what I mean? It didn't grab me at all.

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  8. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Come Dance:

    1-Yes, not good. Although rather I like that 'dry' left channel. It's too wonky.
    2-Too much reverb, kind of washed out sounding.
    3-The bass comes through better, which is a plus, otherwise, not much better than 2.

    4-Too processed, like it's been run though some weird NR.
    5-Really reverby and washed out, no.
    6-Too goosed, but without any real meat to it.

    7-Mono mix, which doesn't serve this music very well.
    8-I like this one, even with the channels reversed. It's nice and punchy and forward, with just the right amount of reverb taking place behind the music.
    9-Okay, pleasant.
    10-Not much better than 7.

    I like eight the best.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The COME DANCE WITH ME! answers have been posted (a little earlier than planned) at the samples page. More clips/discussion to follow. Thanks for playing!

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  10. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Well, color me surprised. I have the Walsh remix in the Capitol Years box and didn't recognize it.

    I dunno, from the evidence of clip 2, I'm not going to be in a hurry to buy the 2009 LP.
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, from your site :

    Matt, re #1. I have a version 2 9 o'clock with that same really crappy mix. Lots of bad sounding old copies of this album floating around. I think I tried describing this mix here years ago. I don't know exactly when this mix was replaced on then new cuttings by the other vintage stereo mix (noted below), or when the replacement one was made. I can say that it should have been mixed by 1963, because I have cuttings of it that use the older LP lathe codes (D or N), replaced by new codes in 1963.

    I do have (at least) a couple of 12 o'clock copies with the (relatively) better vintage stereo mix heard on your JPN, MoFi, and UK "box" CD. I don't remember if I have a 9 o'clock copy with it.

    #3, the current LP issue, to my ears, seems to use the better of the old stereo mixes, but folds in the channels, narrowing the image. I hate that. Might as well have used the mono tapes instead.
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    So, is the "really crappy mix" the original stereo mix, or the 2nd of 3?

    Matt
     
  14. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    DJ Wilbur, what are the last matrix letter/number of your mono Come Dance With Me LP?
     
  15. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warren, RI, USA
    On Come Dance With Me:

    Now that you've spilled the beans, I will say of the LP versions, I think the new Capitol 180g LP sounds quite nice, I'd call it a toss up between that one and the MoFi. None of the earlier Capitol pressings sound particularly good, and the mono versions sound pretty bad (one of them was mine).

    Of the CDs, I must admit that I actually like the Norberg remix/remaster. I don't hear the usual NR issues with this one, and I like the brighter mix which gives the brass more bite. Back in 1998 when these EOTC remasters started coming out, I was shocked at how bad they sounded. I immediately sold all the ones I bought with the exception of Come Dance With Me.
     
  16. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Yeh, upon listening again, for me, MOFI takes the lead again with vinyl versions.

    The 2009 isn't terrible, but I like to hear the 'rhythm swing' as the song goes, and dislike flabby sounding mixes buried in a sea of reverb, when it comes to this music.
     
  17. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    I'll check that when i get home tonight.
     
  18. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    thanks for posting these samples Matt. Will listen tonight when i get home from the office.
     
  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    I believe so.
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    So...original, you think?

    Matt
     
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    That's what I mean, yes. That mix is so squashed, and the echo on Frank's voice sounds funny. It does have better bass than the mix that followed. It seems to have been replaced on newer cuts at some point. Not sure exactly when, but within a few years from when the album came out. The earliest cut I have with the replacement mix is an N14 side two (excellent sound), with the relatively smaller size machine stamping. Capitol started using that style of stamping in '61. They did away with the D & N codes sometime in '63. So, that lacquer was cut in those years. I couldn't tell you when the actual replacement mix was done, unless someone lets me dig though the vaults. :)
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I still haven't decided on a winner, but I've made significant updates to the Come Dance with Me sample pages. Input appreciated! Click here.
     
  23. ArneW

    ArneW Senior Member

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    If I haven't lost count while listening to the samples, I think the U.K. CD Box version is the one for me.

    Arne

    BTW, this thread (and your samples, Matt) are fantastic. And this is THE place for these discussions to take place (Thank you, Steve!).
     
  24. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    side 1 W1 1069 N4
    side 2 W2 1069 N1
     
  25. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    WOW, these samples and your presentation are outstanding Matt. I've not had time to really analyze these completely, but those four stereo vinyl samples are quite something. that first one is just atrocious in a way and I have to spend more time with your analysis of the reverb one channel dealio that i'd just speed read.

    interesting to hear the UK and my US sample very similar. I believe from the matrix # of my copy its from a master tape dub east coast pressing so they'd be sourced from a very similar tape dupe.

    the MFSL does sound nicer than I've given it credit for over time...I think some have been a bit harsh on those pressings as we're now hearing them stacked up to other vinyls and they are shining in my book.

    Off to the gym, but wanted to chime in and I'll listen more later, the cds are next and then your second page and i'll swoop back round it all again.
     

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