SH Spotlight Newbies getting started playing vinyl, please avoid mistracking & resulting groove damage!!!

I haven't had time to read this complete thread so I might be mis-speaking. In Steve's post number one he asks if there was a modern, cheap or inexpensive cart available. I know the days of really low prices are gone but the range of $350.00 is not inexpensive at my house. Some of you have the means to buy multi-thousand dollar outfits, I don't. I do need to upgrade my vinyl equipment so I enjoyed the way this thread started and will read it all later but guys we poor people need some easier alternatives also.

 

In case the Charlie Christian wasn't enough, here's another example of a good dynamic sounding old record ruined by an improperly tracking heavy arm wearing out the grooves (most noticeable on the bass and trumpet.)

A section of Duke Ellington's 'Jubilee Stomp' ca.1928.

PLAY

It pains me a little when collectors now play very clean undamaged records on old phonographs, for just this reason, same thing could happen.

 

When I was in high school I bought my first “real” turntable a Pioneer PL12D with a Shure M91ED cartridge prior to that I had a Garrard changer which I partnered with a Technics receiver, a JVC Reel to Reel and a pair of Advents .

Being paranoid about record wear I changed the stylus every 300-400 hours. Because the low end cartridges had cheaply polished tips what I used to do is when I found sealed clearance LP’s for 50 cents, I load up and before I started using the new stylus I’d open a bunch of the cheap LP’s and put about 25 hours on the needle. This would be a cheap way of polishing the tip before use, I then throw the lp’s out. Ithen moved to a M95ED and then to a V15

I was fastidious in setup and used one of the early Shure test records along with a rather cheap protractor. I eventually updated first to an AR table and then in the mid-eighties to a Sota/SME combination.

I’ve gone through a boat load of equipment since then but boy I loved that first system and my records survived perfectly.

 

Midrange resolution mostly—though I wouldn't want to overstress the difference. The 97xE is more refined but it ain't no Koetsu.

 

Sounds like you're ready to move up to the 440MLa.

 

Well crap, I was afraid someone would say that. Don't have the money for that; I suppose I could get a good return on the 120E as it hasn't been used much, but in any case the Mla is double the price.

 

Make sure you're properly aligned and track the 120E at the upper end of its range, around 1.7 and drop your anti-skate back to around .6 or .7. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Some people who have owned both the 120E and 440 Mla prefer the 120.

 

Ah! Thanks, I'll try this! I have a simple paper protractor from Garage-A-Records and it looks good as far as I can see. I've been wondering about tracking weight and anti-skate. The instructions say "1.4g optimal". Anyway, after tomorrow I'll have time. Thanks for the, er, tip!

 

Steve (and/or others):

I have a Shure V15 Type IV MR cart which now has a lot of miles on it.

Can I order a replacement stylus for it (or have it "re-tipped") and it will perform as well as ever?

And if so, what should I be looking for (i.e. details I can ask for from the seller or Hi-Fi shop)?

Thanks!

 

Not too long ago, you could find one for under $100. I'll bet you could find one today for not much more.

Just know that without proper loading, that cart will be trebly. If you like a very bright sound, it's all good.

 

I have two of them, great little things. Back at Blue Note (the record store in North Miami Beach), I tried with no avail to get some made to hand out as a store PR type thing. We sell lots of wax to club DJs, spinners, and plain ol' vinyl junkies. That would be a great thing for people to use to set-up their tables with but the ownder of the business nixed it immediatly. One of these days, I would love to find a Soundtractor, or one of the mirrored protractors that Turntable Basics sells which is out of stock. The 2 that I have, one came with the UK HI-Fi News test record, the other one from Enjoy The Music.com. Both are identical in every way and I use them.

 

John Lennonist: This should be an option for you (and one that is pretty highly thought of from what I've read):

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=1049

I believe that they also have a hyper elliptical for less money-around $97-but the concensus is that the SAS is definitely worth the extra. From what I've read, people that have actually used the SAS feel it is superior to the original MR Shure stylus.

 

All I can say is with my Bryston phono stage in my BP6 preamp, the sound is not bright. It can sound dull with certain records actually.

 

Hello Mr Hoffman! Thanks for your helpful post..and oo toob video to explain...
I have a 1980's Technics SL-QL1 Linear tracking turntable with an Ortofon Pmount OMP20 (ELLIPTICAL !!! ).
Does this qualify as a no no , or are you referring to just "cheap" elliptical ones. My next move is to get their "Shibata" version of it , the OMP 30...

I used to have a Techniccs SL-Q2, but,as another mamber here posted , inner groove distortion was never totally eliminated( I had an AT cart) until I moved to the Linear Tracking one....

 

Why is this thread scaring people who have 'elliptical' styli on their carts. The majority of styli out there are 'elliptical'. Can we please have some definition/names of what these 'cheap elliptical' styli are because it's kind of ludicrous to start freaking people out about the profile of their styli with such vague talk about tip shapes. There are plenty of rubbish conical styli out there able to damage records.
Some confusing info here

 

Wow! Now I am sitting at my speakers listening for distortion. I am sure I am not the only on now. I am not a newbie but I am using a super old cartridge, Shure M31E, so Steve's words made me take that into consideration. I have it as loud as I can make it go and sound good. Speakers aren't so efficient and my amp is only about 5-6 watts so it makes it tough. But it seems it is okay. I am pretty careful in setting up my arm and the cartridge.

 

I like the thrust of this thread however while it's certainly true to say a 'rough' stylus sure can damage a record the inference coming through the thread is all elliptical styli do.
As a Stanton 681EE user I find that hard to believe. I hear next to no mistracking and it even does a respectable job of handling those discs I bought used that were damaged by their previous owner (like my SM1981 Surfer Girl lp).

 

Candy,

A Stanton 681 A stylus is just what the doctor ordered for older 45 RPM singles. It's kind to styrene and the stylus profile was made with older singles in mind. It's engineered for low distortion playing back loudly cut singles on the air. KAB should be able to get you one.

 

Is it possible for someone to post a mistracked sample vs. a regular one? At least a simulation of how it'd sound.

It'd be good if it was from a record I have at home (Beatles, solo Beatles), but that'd would be asking too much I guess.

 

Right, there's no reason to worry if you don't hear mistracking: distortion, sibilance, etc. If you do have a problem, fix it before you wreck your records.

 

Evidently I am in the same boat. I have ordered a new Benz Micro MC20E2 H that I plan to install (replacing the same model). This has an ellipitical stylus - and I've always loved the sound of this set-up. Any advice on what I should use for a moving coil that has this level of output (2.0mV)?

 

I've used the OM-20 and it's a reasonably decent tracker; MUCH better than the OM-10 or 5. The 20 would probably be fine for most people's listening needs. If you have a lot of loud/hot cut discs like 12" singles, you might want to consider something a step up, but for most LPs, it's fine.

 

I have to ask. I am selling my BANG &OLUFSEN 4002 LATERAL TRACKING TABLE WITH A MMC 6000 CARTRIDGE. I have noticed that when I playing a record the arm with the stylus seems to move back and forth on some tracks.
What causes this ? I have never tracked at more than one gram and the fidelity is great. No skips whatsoever. Would I be correct in assuming it is the grooves in the record that make this appear to be moving?
I am selling the B&O because I like the idea of having a completely manual table. ( As example. You cant hear the concentric groove on Sgt Pepper ) I sold my Thorens which I deeply regret. That is what I am going back to.