Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality: "A Swingin' Affair" - 1957

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Jan 1, 2010.

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  1. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Greg1954
    ....Mixed with tedious things like 'Stars Fell On Alabama' ....

    Yeah, sorry about that Greg.....

    "Take what he does in the second approach to the lyrics of "Alabama".... there's no other lyrical/musical moment like that anywhere else in the Capitol catalogue, even on SFSW."



    ;)
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Hi, Rangerjohn. No problem at all (and no surprise either) that a bunch of Sinatra fans should have different faves and not-quite-faves within the catalog. Like I said, I don't hate the album -- not by a long shot. It does get repetitive though.... to me, anyway.

    Matt

    PS - Most of my complaint is with the lack of variety in Mr. Riddle's work on this album, not with Mr. Sinatra's singing, which is a marvel. Riddle's arrangements are tasteful, elegant, and inviting -- and all very similar in terms of musical form and flavor. Same thing happened to a lesser degree a few years later with THE CONCERT SINATRA, but the instrumental palette was so expansive and flavorful and rich, it was less obvious. (...and that album is one of my absolute favorites.)
     
  3. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
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    Interesting....I hear just a touch of edginess/distortion on the voice, like the mic is being slightly overdriven or something, which I also pick up on some cuts on the Only the Lonely, which I believe was recorded in the same studio. To me, it's not quite right sonically, but I'm not sure of the reason. I wonder if it's the infamous bad mic premap tube of Come Fly With Me rearing it's head. It could also by my ears...
     
  4. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    I don't disagree with this assessment at all, Matt. My point was that even if Riddle's arrangements were more varied and complicated on SFSW than on ASA, FS's vocals were, in quite a few instances, more adventurous on the latter, in ways that more than compensate, I think, for the uniformity of the arrangements.

    To be fair to Riddle, he and FS may have made a conscious decision to go with arrangements like this on ASA so that FS could further explore the following approach to the material: sing the first part "straight" (lovely, beautiful, etc.) and then vocally deconstruct--for lack of a better word--the second part of the songs (often by changing, manipulating or dropping lyrics that he sang in the first part). By comparison, FS used this approach in a more restrained manner on SFSL (except for "Monterey" :righton:). He may have wanted to do this full force on the ASA super uptempo numbers.

    Maybe....
     
  5. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Yes, Sinatra's in top form throughout.

    The bad tube on CFWM affected the signal from the right overhead orchestra microphone, I don't think ASA has any of kind of that problem.
    Next time I hear it I'll see if there is any of the overload on the vocal that you describe. With ASA it sounds to me like they pushed his microphone up just hot enough to give it a nice extra amount of relief from the overall sonic picture. Which I don't hear on some of the other albums that have him sounding more recessed and kind of like another element of the orchestra.
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Keep in mind that this was Sinatra's first uptempo album to be recorded at the Capitol Tower. Previous albums, such as SONGS FOR SWINGIN' LOVERS, were recorded at KHJ, and IIRC, the orchestra was up on a stage, elevated slightly, at least in the big "radio studio" room, which was designed for live shows presented to an audience, basically a glorified auditorium.

    Matt
     
  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Many of the arrangements here are variations on a theme. But what a theme. However, the relative sameness of the arrangements doesn't reduce the quality of the album to me, nor wears out their welcome. I find all the arrangements to be very strong. If anything, in the case of this album, it gives the album more cohesion, since the album's title is a fairly loose concept. It lives up to the title, and then some, even on the slower tracks.

    I think the songs chosen are strong throughout, and what's done with them at least as much, or moreso. I've seen criticism of the inclusion of "No One Ever Tells You", but I love it. I'd probably pick "I Got It Bad" as the weakest, and even that's very good. Different strokes... As great as side one is, side two is even stronger to my taste.

    Frank's performances here (from the "No One..." session onward) marked a change in his singing that would stay with him until he retired in the mid-90's. He completely let loose for an extended program for the first time to my ear. Really swung unfettered and dove into the songs without abandon. Any of the relatively more mannered phrasing of the Columbia era was gone here. At the same time, it's also the point where you can begin to hear a bit of aging (for lack of a better description) in his voice as well - not with a reediness yet, but shead of the sweetness from years past. Not a bad thing, but a notable evolution in his vocal sound. Amazing performances throughtout.

    The album is sonically amazing as well, at least the actual recordings are. While it's true that the samples of vintage LP's on Matt's excellent site are relatively cut from the same cloth, it's because many of the old cuttings were mastered too dull on top to my ear, though are usually fine through the rest of the spectrum. Try tracking down a clean D16 side two, and hear it like most probably never have before. I don't know of a side one that is mastered as well - if you have a D16 side two and know of a side one that matches it sonically, please post it if you wish. Other than that, I'd recommend the Walsh CD, though part of why I like it is using it as a clean source for further tweaking.
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I picked up a 1984 "Alan Dell" British pressing today, and have updated both pages of the "A Swingin' Affair" site accordingly. Updates are in BLUE.

    I also added a clip of a D7 pressing from greg1954. :)

    Matt

    Also, regarding MMM's comments above, I think that by and large I agree about the higher numbered stampers (such as D16 or my own N16) having a little nicer sound. (I've been doing a lot of listening today.) Oddly, the D5 copy that Stevelucille sent in has great top end, but it seems to be an exception, as many of the lower-numbered stampers are, as MMM hints, a little dull on top. Nothing awful, and they are still nice; just a hair dull on top.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  9. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    The Alan Dell LP has a nice clean sound, while possibly being a little more musical and pleasing to the ear than the Walsh CD.

    I don't know if it's due to the age/condition of the vintage pressings or what, but they all seem to have a little 'grit' on them that's nice to be rid of, especially when combined with the slightly dull top end that some of them have.

    Of course, it's disappointing that MFSL used the reverbed tapes.

    Remember that Capitol cut in a song from ASA on their botched 180 gram reissue of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I wonder if that's a clue that ASA will be put out in that series, sometime.
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Based on their track record on those first three, part of me says, "I hope not." :sigh:

    PS - On the bottom of the "winners page," I've added some information about the mid-60s 12-track reissue LP.
     
  11. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warren, RI, USA
    I had one of those 12 track reissues. It's utter garbage and should be avoided at all costs.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Not to throw dirt in the machine but there is a note on the original tape boxes that reveal that SOME (repeat) SOME versions of the 12 song version use the session tapes and some use the redubbed echo EQ'd copy.

    Have fun, campers..
     
  13. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    And the yellow label 12 song (SM) reissue is duophonic.
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Really!? Wow, I would not have suspected that, although the Jolly Christmas SM-series is duophonic also, so I guess it's not a big shock. Mono or duophonic, it's missing 3 songs (and has a jumbled song order, I assume), so.... it's a dead duck right out of the gate, basically. I'm curious: In the deadwax, can you see where it originally said something like "DW-803," (or whatever the catalog number was), but the DW was simply scratched out, replaced by "SM" right next to it? That happened with the JOLLY CHRISTMAS SM-series.

    Matt
     
  15. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    No, there's nothing like that looks like that.

    Handwritten SM matrix # and MASTERED BY CAPITOL machine stamped.
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Is there any mention on the cover that the pressing is Duophonic? Just curious.
     
  17. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    No.

    But you may be able spot the cover of this one by the songs titles being printed along the top, unlike the original.
     
  18. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warren, RI, USA
    Yes, that's the one I had. Horrible sound. I also had a yellow SFSL that was Duophonic. I sold them, but I think they are still sitting in the bin at the record store I sold them to, so I could check them. Both were awful.
     
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I think we can take your word on that! :thumbsup:
     
  20. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    All SM prefix Sinatra/Capitol mono only albums are Duophonic issues, to the best of my knowledge.
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Apparently some/most were, but my IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS (10 song version) is mono.
     

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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Thanks. I was aware of the 10 song true mono reissue, but thought it was an SN prefix, issued later.
     
  24. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

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    Just for fun, here's a sample of 'Lonesome Road' from the yellow label Duophonic ASA. First half, as is. Second half, folded (by me) to mono.

    In stereo it's not unlistenably bad, until you fold it into mono, and then it's gets ugly.

    On some of those old Duophonic LP's the opposite is true, in stereo, they're really bad, but folded to mono they can be tolerable.

    Lonesome Road in Duophonic
     
  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
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