LENO NBC Primetime - 10:00pm MON-FRI (Part 2)

I think some of you guys are getting way off base on the situation here.

Conan was not forced from his 11:35 time slot because his ratings sucked. He wasn't forced out because affiliates were in revolt over his low ratings during the paltry seven months he held the show.

He was forced out because Jay's show at 10pm was a disaster and the NBC affiliates were in revolt because of it. Conan lost the tonight show because of Jay's inability to make his show work and provide a stable lead in to the affiliates local news stations which is essentially a lead in to the tonight show.

You guys can argue Conan's ratings all you want and whether or not he was a good choice for the tonight show but that really has very little to do with what went down and why.

 

"saddled' was my word. I presume it was cross promotion at the orders of the network to boost both shows. Though, I can't believe Leno thought of the people eliminated from "The Biggest Loser" each week as ideal guests.

Many years ago, I remember Letterman had eliminated contestants from some reality or game show appear on his talk show each week as they left their show. I felt sorry for them. That night, before their appearances and actually during their air-time he would openly mock and insult them and complain how the network had forced him to book them on the show. I forget which reality/ game show it was, but do remember that the next season it aired the eliminated contestants appeared the next day on CBS' morning show not Letterman.

 

Conan being yanked was really because of a combination of things. The main one, as usual, was money.

1)Bad ratings=revenue dropoff
2)Perceived performance problems
3)Leno wanting to return to the Tonight Show

I think the main reason, as one Forum member had indicated some time back, is that NBC had simply changed it's mind by 2009 about Conan hosting the show. This is why they wouldn't give more than a cursory chance at being the host.

Evan

 

I think it's more:

1. Jay's 10:00 show doing terrible in the ratings and with the local affiliates as a lead-in to the local news.
2. NBC not wanting to release Jay to another network, where he could resume an 11:30 show.
3. Conan's show not equaling Dave's show in the ratings quickly enough, and NBC apparently not willing to give him the time to develop an audience.
4. Making the decision to can Conan, and put Jay back at 11:30, in the hopes he will resume his dominance in that timeframe, in the short-term. That's a short-sighted decision IMO, chasing the aged audience that Leno appeals to, and not developing the younger 18-49 audience that Conan would have developed.

Jay agreeing to go back to 11:30 is why he's lost a lot of his luster in many eyes. If he were classy he'd have turned NBC down, saying it was Conan's turn. He still could have gone elsewhere and started another show, and maintained public respect, just as Conan will do.

For a network that apparently expects/plans to lose $200M on the Olympics, paying Leno off wouldn't have been that big of a deal, compared to paying Conan off.

 

I'm not sure if anyones noticed this, but too me it's an odd coincidence. Jay has said in the Oprah interview and other places that they asked him to leave the Tonight Show 7 months before his contract was up to make the move to 10:00. Isn't seven months just about how long Conan had the Tonight show? Isn't that a strange coincidence?

 

Yes, but just a co-incidence (IMO).

Conan hosted "The Tonight Show" from June 1, 2009 to January 22, 2010. NBC's proposal to move him to 12:05 was leaked on January 7 and confirmed by the network on January 10. On January 12 Conan released his open letter refusing to host the show if it moved to 12:05, thus signaling his departure from the show and network since NBC seemed unlikely to retract their plans. This was slightly seven months after his debut as host.

Leno's last "Tonight Show" was scheduled seven months before his contract with NBC expired. This was purposely done by the network to prevent his availability to another network and especially to prevent his hosting a competing programme opposite Conan's debut and early days as host. This was done for Conan's and the network's advantage. As long as they paid Leno for those seven months, he could not appear on tv without their permission.

The public announcement of Leno's 10 o'clock show was made December 8, 2008. When Leno agreed to the 10 o'clock show he signed a new contract and I'm presuming his old contract which was due to expire approximately January 1, 2010 was rendered null and void by the parties to his new contract then (in December 2008).

Leno has stated that he asked to be released from his contract (due to expire seven months after leaving "The Tonight Show") sometime after the announcement that Conan was taking over show was made (2004), but before agreeing to the 10 o'clock show and signing a new contract (2008).

Leno has also stated that he also asked to be released from his 10 o'clock show contract when informed it had been cancelled, but in reply was told the network planned to move a 30 minute version of it to 11:35. He asked if Conan had agreed to that time slot and was told negotiations between NBC and Conan were on-going and that Conan had 75% agreed to the move and that there would be no problems about that. I don't know the date of this - probably early January 2010.


I'm also presuming that when he agreed to host "The Tonight Show" for a second time he signed yet another contract.

 

Contracts are why NBC had to shell out so much cash to Coco.

Evan

 

+1.

What we've seen here on the part of Leno loyalists is a bunch of justification for some unprincipled network execs actions. If Leno hadn't been a failure in the first place, none of this would have occurred. No one at NBC was sitting around fretting Conan's ratings and saying, "this guy's gotta go, we are getting killed at 11:30!" NBC was getting killed on a nightly basis at the 10:00 hour due to Leno's failure to attract an audience competitive with that of the other networks, and the affiliates demanded he go.

At that point, the execs had 2 unattractive options- let Leno "retire", i.e., move to another network and compete with Conan for ratings; or put Leno back where he started. Certainly Conan's inability to develop ratings comparable to those held by Leno made the executives' choice easier. From a purely business perspective, no GE stockholder can blame either NBC or Leno for the choices they made. However, that doesn't make those choices honorable,just or worthy of praise. Just like any other employee who was canned before he had a chance to grow into his job, Conan got the rug yanked from under him by an employer who made him longstanding promises and to whom he had shown the utmost of loyalty over a long career. And that's why most common folk and especially those in the age demographic that watched Conan (and who can easily from a work perspective identify with Conan's situation and "the MAN" screwing him over) empathize with him and are likely to punish NBC and Leno for their conduct here by taking their remote controls elsewhere.

 

They had more options than that. They could have simply cancelled the 10 o'clock show and continued to pay Leno to the expiration of his contract, whether he appeared on air or not while Conan continued with TTS. They could have reduced the 10 o'clock show to one night per week, instead of five, and revamp it. They could have cancelled the 10 o'clock show and offered Leno a series of primetime specials. They could have cancelled Leno's 10 o'clock show and given Conan a guaranteed run until May 30th to win ratings, while fullfilling Leno's contract, in effect keeping him on 'retainer' to see if Conan could or could not succeed - and if not, replacing Conan with Leno June 1.

NBC has badly mishandled this since 2004 (IMO), including offering Leno a thirty minute show at 11:35 while telling Conan he could keep TTS but would have a later timeslot; and not providing Conan with clear ratings expectations and a definitive timeline to meet those expectations. And the network should have stuck by that plan.

 

Jack, too bad you weren't an NBC exec- you certainly identified a number of better solutions here than were actually exercised, any number of which would have enabled NBC and Leno to avoid getting egg of their faces...

 

I've worked in TV (network and cable) for 20 years...based on his alternative scenarios I can say without reservation Jack is smarter than any of the people calling the shots...

I fully expected they'd cut Jay down to 2 shows a week when it was clear his show was bombing and affiliates were getting po'd...

 

Wouldn't it be great if Conan won an Emmy for "Tonight"...but I guess NBC would have to enter a nomination for him....

 

A lot was made in the trades as to why (or whether) Conan's contract didn't specify an 11:35PM timeslot. If he just had that specific provision, a lot of this argument would be moot. "You move my show, you have to give me $40 million."

Letterman commented in a print interview that his contracts always specified the start time and days of the show, and the running time. Otherwise, they could theoretically change the show to once a week on Sundays at 2AM, and run it for 15 minutes.

Howard Stern said the same thing: his contracts always specified that he had the morning drive shift from 6AM-10AM (though he frequently runs longer). If Conan's contract did omit the timeslot -- which apparently he did -- this was a huge bungling mistake by his high-powered attorneys and management.

 

NBC runs golf footage and other things like Olympics or Political stuff until midnight sometimes. LENO would not have had an 11:35 provision in his contract.

 

Not necessarily. I'm sure that pre-emptions for political or sports events do not count as violations of a time slot provision. A time slot provision would just cover the regular scheduled time for a show. I can't imagine a network would not reserve the right to make occasional pre-emptions. Dave also has been delayed or pre-empted for sports and political events, and he says he has a time slot provision.

 

So how did Conan get the money if NBC didn't breach his contract? He's walking away with a lot of money, so it seems to me that his attorneys did an OK job.

 

-Partly to go away and do so quietly and for a certain amount of time.

-Conan could have taken NBC to court since he was promised the THE TONIGHT SHOW that had had the same time slot for 5 decades. He was given a high profile promotion to stop being "#2" with 2 years to find his feet, declined huge offers from other networks, and both partied agreed to the contract in good faith. Neither side had a position that was a lock if they went to court.

 

A couple sources say FOX is still himming and hawing.

They could do the show on a more modest budget and NBC has to pick up the difference in Conans salary.

 

Do we know for a fact that Conan's NBC contract did not specify a time slot?

Of course, since the Tonight Show had been running in that time slot for fifty years, a legal argument could be made that it was to be expected upon signing that the show would be at 11:35PM. I think this is why NBC caved and paid him.

Evan

 

One of Conan's lawyers has spoken out about some of the criticisms of his "Tonight" contract. She says it was a great contract and gave the legal team all they needed to "go to war" -- but of course, there wasn't enough in it to keep O'Brien at 11:30. I think if you read between the lines, it seems there was no iron-clad 11:35 guarantee.

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/02/conans_attorneys_are_very_happ.php

Here's an article that claims Conan didn't have a timeslot guarantee in his contract:

http://www.thresq.com/2010/01/conan-leno-lawsuit-nbc.html

 

It must be that NBC wanted both to avoid a legal challenge and for Conan to "go away", so they caved on the payment.

Evan

 

Saw a couple of bits on TV news this morning. One report says Rupert Murdock might be interested if the FOX programming dept. can put together a package showing that FOX could make money by signing Conan.

The report also mentioned the FOX affiliates are up in arms. They apparently make a lot of money by showing re-runs during the 11.30pm to 12.30pm time slots. They're not too keen on having Conan signed.

 

Conan on from 10:30 to 11:30 then?

Evan

 

They could have easily cut Jay to Wednesday and Friday evening.

 

I would bet it was a combination of wanting to get the situation resolved, wanting to lock in a "no-compete" clause for at least a few months, and not wanting to roll the dice on possibly losing a lawsuit (Conan's lawyers apparently would have gone with the "time slot is implied by the fact it's the Tonight Show" argument, which could possibly have won in court).

That doesn't seem like a sound plan. Then what would they do in a few years when NBC's obligation is over... slash Conan's salary?