Sometimes the results of this can be quite wonderful. Queensryche used lots of samples on the Empire and Promised Land tours, especially during the Operation Mindcrime segments, but the end product was something to behold. The synchronization between their live perfomance and the video material that was being projected around them was astounding. The Empire tour, where they performed Mindcrime in it's entirety, was one of the best I've ever seen and I don't really mind that it was not all 'live.'
How does everybody feel about what Steve Harris did on Iron Maiden's Live In Rio? In a spot where the crowd was singing along Steve felt the crowd didn't sound that good by themselves so he lifted Bruce Dickinson's voice from another part of the song and inserted it over the crowd singing to make it sound better. He tried to justify it by saying that it was still Bruce singing from the same night rather than a studio overdub.
It's been said that KISS' "Alive!" and "Alive II" were heavily overdubbed in the studio. At any rate, it's common knowledge among KISS fans that "Hard Luck Woman" and "Tomorrow and Tonight" from "Alive II" were recorded entirely in the studio, as the band hadn't performed them live. They have admitted to this in print. It's also strongly suspected that 20 years after the fact, they did overdubs on the "unreleased" live tracks from "You Wanted The Best, You Got The Best" comp from '96. All one has to do is compare Paul's Vocal on "Take Me" to a Japan 1977 boot called "The Lost Alive II album" and this takes on a lot of creedence. I think there should be a statute of limitations in regards to overdubbing live albums...within a few years at least. Why do you want to hear a band past their prime putting new vocals or instruments over something that's of a different time??
Elvis Costello released two live b-sides with studio recorded vocals: "Neat Neat Neat" ('78) and "Psycho" ('81), both of them covers. To go on a tangent, in '96 his recording of "Complicated Shadows" begins as a studio performance and then explodes into a live track. It probably wouldn't have been readily apparent to the listener if not for the spattering of crowd noice as the song tapers off. I remember reading an interview with the engineer about the making of the record ALL THIS USELESS BEAUTY. He mentioned EC coming to him and the producer with the idea to blend the two performances. Elvis said something along the lines of "I know it's not going to work, so let's make it not work."
It's not just live albums unfortunately. Ozzy ruined Blizzard Of Ozz and Diary Of A Madman IMHO when the bass and drums were re-recorded by his new band members for the 'remastered' versions released last year. I wouldn't have such a problem with this if we had been notified upfront and/or on the outside of the packaging about this rather than finding out after the fact.
They didn't drop the vocal. His microphone was not on. http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/music/rush/tnms/081.html -Markus
No, it's not technically an overdub, but it is an alteration of the performance (which is largely why we dislike overdubs in the first place, right?) and one that I wish they'd left alone. And I find the overlay used in the video footage fairly annoying as well... your mileage may vary. Thanks for the info on the TFE project.
This is Ozzy sounding good? He probably overdubbed the vocals on Tribute, he sounds too good there. The Blizzard Of Ozz overdubs are outrageous. -Markus
Okay, so maybe it wasn't an alteration of the original performance... In that case, I wish they'd simply use alternate camera footage to cut around Alex's unrecorded vocal... I get the "joke", but it feels very out of place.
Glenn Hughes and Joe Lynn Turner have a project obviously titled, Hughes Turner Project. They have a live CD out right now of Deep Purple, Rainbow and project material. Glenn does a KILLER version of Mistreated. I might even be daring to say it is a definitive version, at least on the vocal side. Ironically, from what I can recall, Coverdale did this in the DP days and early Whitesnake days and I don't think Glenn did it on his solo tours up until this point. Rainbow even did it with Dio and probably Joe Lynn Turner at some point. I am hoping there were no overdubs on this record, and Joe sounds pretty good too. It sounds like a small venue and there is a spot or two where Glenn will start a vocal line a few bars early and cut back. This was all left in!
Agreed, Dan. It's pretty petty as to why Ozzy did it, also, owing to an outstanding lawsuit brought against him by Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake in regards to unpaid royalties. Bob Daisley, on his web site, made the point that he felt Randy Rhoads wouldn't have wanted the work altered and that Ozzy was redoing a classic and his fans a disservice. Now, whether or not Randy Rhoads would have felt this way - well, we'll never know for sure, now will we? Watch, someday they'll resolve the lawsuit, giving Sony an excuse to reissue and remaster the albums once again...with their original mixes intact! I wouldn't doubt this will happen someday. Just watch!
1) It is not live at all - trust me - I saw them "Live" in New Haven, CT in December '77 (The very day"Draw The Line" came out and they played it for an encore of sorts - just terrible - No songs sounded anything like their studio cuts - guitars badly out of tune, Tyler's voice was gone and the opening act - Styx (who BTW, I never could stand!) blew them off the stage playing their recent "Grand Illusion" in its entirety) - My brother and I were only like 13 and 14 (Our 1st real concert- excluding The Partridge family at Riverside Park in Agauam , MA - a few years earlier with my Grandmother!!!) were let down big time by our heros that night! - We should have known - as soon as Tyler came out with a bottle of Dom to celebrate the release of "Draw The Line" and said "Good Evening Hartford!!!!" 2) A pretty well known secret/rumour? (at least among studio musicians in the know from that time) is that Hunter and Wagner did all the solos on this? - just compare licks to Sweet Lou's "Into/Sweet Jane" from Rock n' Roll Animal and you'll see what I mean!!! 3) Steve - I didn't know the 45 version was different? - how so? the take? the mix? or just no crowd noise coming in?
3) Steve - I didn't know the 45 version was different? - how so? the take? the mix? or just no crowd noise coming in? ------------------------------------------------------------ I wish I had kept my copy of it, darn it! It was studio, shorter, but a great tight mix, no echo or fake crowd, amazing bass. That's all I remember! It was on that white Columbia label.
Tothe Master (Of Remaster) Hoffman Damn, I seem to remember seeing one of those "White Label" Train 45's - at a record shop not so long ago - also maybe more recently in the liner notes to the "Get Your Wings" 22 bit remaster liner notes! I take it this ahs not been available on CD? Haven't checked my Pandoras Box set =- but I of doubt it! Regarding #2 of above - Have you ever heard anything that backs up or corroborates that story - I mean to me when I heard it and thought about it - it made a lot of sense as Bob Ezrins boys were always Hunter and Wagner - Alice Cooper's "Welcome To My Nightmare" ,etc. and that style of playing on "Train" is not what you usually associate with anything Joe Perry comes up with (don't get me wrong - I like his sound)
So you are saying that on their second record, Hunter and Wagner did the solos? I can see how you could say that they sucked on the Draw the Line tour. They were totally F'd up on drugs at that point and I always wondered how they were sober enough to record their own records. Also, I recall during the recording of Nine Lives, Joey Kramer took a leave of absence and they brought in studio guy, Kevin Valentine to fill in. I think somewhere they claimed that Joey went back in and redid all the drums when he returned, but I have a funny feeling he didn't.
just remembered this one: Voodoo Chile from Electric Ladyland - if I recall, the "studio audience" was dubbed in later. Not really a live song, but it was recorded in one take (please correct me if I am wrong) and made to sound like a live-in-the-studio cut Donald
I have often heard stories of Kiss heavily overdubbing on the Alive albums and that this was a fairly common practice (Running On Empty?) in the 70's . What are some albums that used this practice and which ones did it most benefit?
Al Kooper's Soul Of A Man comes to mind. All of Steve Katz' parts have been replaced by studio overdubs, Jim Fielder did his part as a studio overdub as well. I didn't do the album any good. The Band's The Last Waltz features quite some overdubs as well, most notably the sax solo to "It Makes No Difference" and the "Shape I'm In" horns.
They say Alive is but I doubt very much was done other than vocal correcting. Alive II however, is ridiculous in its absence of even trying to sound live at all. The audience loop never gets quiet, and Paul sings in killer harmonies all over the album.
