AF to do Simon & Garfunkel's Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Khojem, Dec 26, 2009.

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  1. johnny33

    johnny33 New Member

    Location:
    usa
    Must have missed that, which post?
     
  2. TimM

    TimM Senior Member

    I agree. I own very good quality copies of both and I always listen to the stereo version.

    There is some sixties pop & rock music that I do think sounds better and "tighter" in the mono versions, but the Simon & Garfunkel stuff is not among those for me. I have always figured the S&G mono stuff is in such demand because it has never been released in the CD era. If it ever did get an official release I think most people would say it is much ado about nothing.

    After all that rambling though I would agree that it would be nice if they would have included both versions of such a short LP so loyal fans could make their own choice.
     
  3. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam




    I am sorry, it was a few pages back. Actually Audio Fidelity sent out an email with a definitive statement from Marshall on the subject which somebody copied into this thread late last week.
     
  4. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    What?
     
  5. Batears52

    Batears52 Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    I don't see where anyone replied to this post in this thread yet (unless I missed it)!

    I'm wondering where you heard this?

    This begs a couple of questions:

    1) When Sony re-issued the Simon & Garfunkel catalog in 2001, specifically which albums were re-mixed? Wednesday Morning 3AM, Sounds Of Silence and Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme - right?

    2) The story for years was that Columbia had used the original masters for production. The masters were shot - so they decided to re-construct them from the multis. Right?

    3) Now, Bob Irwin has found the original stereo master of PSR&T. It's marked "Do Not Use" like so many masters are, and as Steve has described to us many times over the years. If this release is indeed part of a multi-album deal, what are the chances that the "story" we've heard all along (about the masters being shot) is false & that the other two album masters are still there? Evidently, Columbia either stopped their practice of using masters for production by the time Bookends came out or just maybe they never did. (Frankly, I was surprised that WM3AM had to be remixed - I never thought it did as well as their other albums & didn't see how it could have been worn out.)


    As for mono, yeah it would be cool to have both stereo & mono - IF the tapes still exist. Although, why would Marshall & Bob even have asked Paul Simon about it if they didn't? If Paul is dead set against doing the albums in mono, maybe he could be persuaded to allow an "Original Columbia Singles" collection ala Paul Revere & The Raiders.

    Dexter
     
  6. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Perhaps somebody can dig up the relevant ICE articles, but my recollection is the *story* was the Byrds masters were shot, but the S&G masters (for the first 3 albums) were missing entirely.
     
  7. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    IIRC there's some info in the notes to the Old Friends box set that explains why the music from the first three albums was remixed.
     
  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not really. This is as close as it comes:

    "As time went on, inferior, multi-generational copies replaced the originals as the cutting/working masters."

    Nothing specific about which tapes were worn out or missing and which were found.

    I'd be curious to hear Sounds of Silence from the masters. I've got a 1H/1K pressing, and while some songs (Leaves That Are Green, Richard Cory) sound pretty good, others (The Sound of Silence in particular) sound much better in their remixed form.
     
  9. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    Ok, I was wrong :)
     
  10. Roninblues

    Roninblues 猿も木から落ちる。

    :shh:
     

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  11. Pug

    Pug The Prodigal Snob Returns!

    Location:
    Near Music Direct
  12. Batears52

    Batears52 Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    Luke: I did just this today & it appears that your recollection is correct.

    I found my copy of ICE from October, 1997 where the Old Friends boxset is discussed rather extensively, including some comments from Bob Irwin.

    Quoting the ICE article:

    "Fortunately, the two-track stereo master tapes - mixed at the time by Halee, Simon & Garfunkel - still exist for Bookends and Bridge Over Troubled Water, and are in good condition. On the other hand, the original two-track stereo masters for the first three albums are long gone - heavily used and abused over the years as Simon & Garfunkel's popularity rose and they sold millions of records worldwide."

    It's mentioned that Bookends and Bridge are "rich, textured affairs that could not possibly be remixed today and sound anything like the original albums."

    The article goes on to say that no CD or cassette "or LP in recent memory" had ever been mastered from the original master tape - only production copies. For CDs, it does make an exception for the gold MasterSound version of Bridge and "possibly" Wednesday Morning, "which a Sony engineer remixed in the early 90's for the duo's Collected Works package."

    From this article, I certainly can't draw the conclusion that the masters of the first three albums are trashed ... only that they are "long gone" ... and that production tapes (& dubs of production tapes) were used to manufacture product for years.

    Obviously, the master of Parsley has been found - so I guess there is hope for the other two!

    By the way, Irwin & Anesini are always good for stories about their adventures - such as finding the song "Blues Run The Game" on a reel with no paper trail or any indication that the song existed at all: "No way to know that it existed, other than Vic and I sitting in a room for 12 hours, cranky, eating too much fast food, listening to reel after reel of tape...and all of a sudden you go, 'What the hell is this?!'"

    It also mentions their discovery of the Lincoln Center concert in Iron Mountain 6 years previous - "just walking through the vault".

    They also discuss the fact that the song is called "The Sound Of Silence" (singular) dispite the fact that it appears in the plural just about everywhere it's printed!

    One thing I find weird though is why it took so long to reissue the albums themselves. According to the article in 2001, all the re-mixing & re-mastering work was done in '97 - they did all the songs when they did the box set. Why the heck would Sony wait 4 years to reissue the catalog?

    Dexter
     
  13. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Love this album. First heard it when I was about 3, I think, in 1967. My Mom loved em. In fact, it may have been 1966. What month was it released?

    Quick question: why wouldn't they also release this sacd?
     
  14. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    That's great! Thanks for digging it up. :thumbsup:
     
  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I had that article around for a while...I don't know what happened to it. Good to know I wasn't losing my mind.
     
  16. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    In addition to the Columbia Studio Recordings (1964–1970), I've also got the MFSl of Bookends, a Mastersound edition of Bridge. I've also got an MFSL vinyl pressing & Columbia Mastersound vinyl pressing of Bridge Over Troubled Water.
    If a box of mono titles came out, I'd snap them up immediately, just like I picked up both mono & stereo boxes of the Beatles.

    I respect that Paul Simon may have a preference, but there is no question that mono S & G titles would sell. Certainly not in the same numbers as the Beatles, but they would certainly sell enough to have merited the trouble of a release.

    If the mono mix is really unimpressive, why not put it out there & let us decide for ourselves?
     
  17. Batears52

    Batears52 Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    I think it's a question of how much interest there is in the monos. And by "interest", I mean $$ ca-ching $$. With the Beatles, people have been touting the praises of the monos for years & years - many purchased "gray market" needledrops of the monos when there was nothing official from Apple.

    But with Simon & Garfunkel, judging the demand is much more difficult - once you get past this forum & maybe a couple others. Could they sell 5,000 mono box sets? 10,000? I sure as heck don't know! Ya gotta justify the expense - something that is not easy in this economic climate & in an industry that is seriously struggliing. I also tend to think that the time for deluxe stereo/mono sets is quickly going by. And of course, add to that the fact that Paul Simon is opposed to releasing mono albums...and well...

    When I heard the mono "Fakin' It" on The Best Of, I was floored - I hadn't heard that since it was on the radio! While I would love to hear what others have heard (i.e. the whole Bookends mono album), I'm willing to pick a smaller battle. (Calling Ed Osbourne...) A Complete Columbia Singles S & G collection would be awesome! (hint, hint) ;) :love: :agree: :D

    Dexter
     
  18. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Just to be clear: I've seen a couple posting about the mono Fakin' It on a best of. I've seen a number of S & G compilations.
    Can anyone be more specific on which one this is?

    (post a link, album art, etc...)
     
  19. Yeah, but labels have released countless stereo/mono CDs by artists not nearly as popular/known as S&G like Love's DA CAPO, Jethro Tull's THIS WAS, The Who's SELL OUT... I think some of The Hollies albums had the mono/stereo CD editions as well. This just off the top of my head, I know there's others that are much more obscure.
     
  20. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    This one.
     
  21. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Thank you for the quick reply! :righton:
    Sweet! I see this one at all the used shops in the 8.00 (CDN) range.

    Now all they have to do is remaster the live tracks from the first greatest hits, remaster the Gradute OST, release all the mono singles, and we'll all be happy, right...? :sigh:
     
  22. Dugan

    Dugan Senior Member

    Location:
    Midway,Pa
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Batears52

    Batears52 Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Baltimore, MD
    Right! There's no indication on the back of the CD or the back of the booklet that the song is in mono. It's only mentioned in the song details inside the booklet. I heard it first - before I had thumbed thru the booklet...and almost jumped outta my shoes!

    (BTW...I've never wanted to call someone a name in a public forum...and don't plan to start now. But after reading Mr. Unterberger's review, if I ever meet him....) Hey, I'm just sayin', ya know...."for what that's worth".

    Dexter
     
  24. Khojem

    Khojem Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Irvine, CA, USA
    Good to know! Thanks. :wave:


    I suppose that an ample supply of the tracks are the remixed versions?
     
  25. Khojem

    Khojem Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Irvine, CA, USA
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