Sinatra - Jobim Complete Reprise Recordings

Again, I fully understand where you "super"fans are coming from. I cringe at every dropout on a Herb Alpert disc that others pass over as "Eh! So what..?"

My point is simply that as merely a fan of this music whose not totally invested in it, I don't mind that little "clam". It's unfortunate that it wasn't caught, and I can understand that it's now digitally "stuck" till the next remaster, but I'm still OK with the overall sound of the disc. The artificial reverb is greatly toned down, it's not too loud, etc.

So I won't be throwing away other versions - but I'm also hanging onto this one.

Harry

 

That was exactly my impression from your samples.

This needs the 40 watt incandescent treatment, not harsh fluorescent, like Sinatra & Jobim are playing at the interrogation room.

But I'll reserve any further comment on sound until such time as I would actually buy the disc, and listen to it total.

 

Simply more proof that those in charge of this great catalog are morons.

I wish I could hear your version Steve!

 

My point was to say that somebody must have got to Larry Walsh, because he didn't go nearly as overboard in the loud levels of Franks lead vocals this time, as he had previously done, on the other CONCORD reissues. I've re-listened to this new reissue and while it's far from perfect, it's at least worthy of listening to, which I certainly can't say for either "Strangers", "My Way" or either of the recent Larry Walsh REPRISE mastered comps. Jesus, just give us the 5.1 surround mixes and we can all make our own remixes!

Chris C

 

HERETIC!

 

I hear you, but sadly, the Sinatra family, (read that Nancy, Tina and Frank Jr.), just don't fall for my religion anymore.

Chris C

 

I'm critical of, and disappointed by the recent FSE releases, but I don't blame Nancy or the family. They all share the name Sinatra and I'm certain none of them would want anything but the best associated with that name.

 

I think that says it all folks

 

Yes, all was correct takes, edits, etc., Steve. Gently mixed, with beautiful, honest sound. It was really great, except for two things. I thought "Change Partners" (my favorite) had the rhythm just a little too prominent (maybe the right orchestra channel had to come down a touch?). I also would have preferred trying to replicate the processing done on Jobim's voice to match what was done on the original mixes and the '90's remix, but it was better leaving it untampered than doing it wrong...

 

In my opinion, unless the masters are damaged and there isn't a good alternate source for "the take" (like some of the Columbia era material), wrong takes and/or missing edits should not be considered an acceptable replacement for release over what the artist approved. Carefully chosen alternates, session material, etc., that are artistically acceptable can be a nice supplement to the original takes on a release, but they shouldn't be used in place of them.

 

That sums up my viewpoint very nicely.

 

Well said. I don't think we're going to be able to make silk purses out of these sow's ears....

 

Well said.

I know it can get a little hazy with the Sinatra name used on the new company, but there's also Warners involved, and lots of other people. Just because Nancy is (generously) "out there", it doesn't mean she should be on the receiving end of complaints on how things are released, why this or that isn't out, etc. She's a great lady...

 

I agree.

I doubt little changes like these issued as the main content instead of "bonus tracks" are intentional. I'd be surprised if they were. It shows how important it is to use the older releases as a reference, sync them up, and A/B to be sure all the content is correct.

 

Ugh. The more I read this thread, the more upset I get. Seriously, I'm fuming here! How could Concord screw up such a monumental album reissue? Hell, one review listening session compared to even the recently deleted "Entertainer Of The Century" CD version (c'mon it isn't that difficult to track down!), let alone an original vinyl LP copy of the album, would've alerted those in charge of this reissue that something wasn't quite right.

I can only hope that Concord fixes the editing issues on subsequent pressings of the CD, since what they reissued is technically not the original 1967 album as people have come to know and love it. Remixing aside, we're not all just bemoaning a Loudness Wars issue here.

Concord made right (so to speak) the heinous wrong they committed when they seriously screwed up the A Charlie Brown Christmas soundtrack reissue and offered a free exchange program. Perhaps they'll do the same thing here. It's doubtful, but it could happen.

 

My thoughts exactly. You beat me to it!

 

So, the only version of this album I've heard is the first WB CD, from the early 90's I think. Could someone clarify for me which CD versions feature the original mix, and which feature remixes? Did the 90's remix referred to above have all the correct edits and vocal takes?

 

The original CD of the '67 album uses the original stereo mix, as does the tracks highlighted from it on the 4 CD Reprise box set. The 20 CD "Complete Reprise" box from '95 and the '98 EOTC issue of the album has a remix, with better mastering (to my ear) of it on the '98 individual CD. That remix had all the correct edits/takes...

 

Steve,

Any chance Audio Fidelity could license this material and issue your 2000 mixes on Gold CD?

 

Well yes, but... The world was and is awash in mediocrity from which Frank Sinatra and some of his work, this album included, regularly attempted to stand out above. Not settling for mediocrity is not necessarily about being an obsessive fan or whatever anyone fussed enough to complain is often labeled, it's a part of human nature and our relating to some things in life. It is a natural aspect of the arts. A part of it in this case is the difference of a completely superb vocal instead of an otherwise superb one served with clam and a superior instrumental part over a fair one, which is exactly the reasons that those edits were made. Sinatra and Jobim weren't considered mediocre talents and contrary to the views some folks have of "classic pop," Sinatra - Jobim wasn't intended as a product of mediocrity.

However well intended it does seem to have been, this edition missed the edits. Also for whatever reason(s) it both presumed to revise the sound quality of the original release and settled for less than the finest sound it could achieve. Neither case is unusual or widely considered significant. All the same, as a consequence this release is yet another product of mediocrity.

Yeah it's minor but it still irks me a bit.

There will not always be one. Another thing that irks me (irkable today aren't I). As it is now, few enough of the remixes and remasters there have been are any too great. For another point, there are probably ever fewer folks able to get a really great playback from vintage tapes in the events such are available. It is more than possible that any future listeners, such as there may be, will have a mainstream digital release like this, not a dwindling bunch of old records or rare editions, as the source for hearing this music. This is the "transition era" and odds are ever increasing for each given title that all choices made now are made for good.

All this is only meant in discussion and it's just my humble on it, please pardon the rants guys. Both of you mean well and are working from a good perspective. Maybe I'm being nit-picky and touchy tonight. Honest I'm a really retiring, resigned, easy-going kinda guy for the most part but now and then I bestir myself a wee bit. Now all that railing against mediocrity is over I feel better now... especially since not feeling I need this issue of it could save me some money.

 

For folks that have this, did they pan the instruments in different locations in the remix? Your thoughts on mix panning placement?