Sonny Rollins' "Way Out West" CD -- which version to get?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Wie Gehts?, Jul 11, 2009.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    No, it sucks. Artists Rights and all that.

    And since we don't know the true source, the sounds keeps getting degraded and degraded as the Grey market people rip each other off by taking their mastered disks and redubbing.

    Urggh.
     
  2. I think that would apply to any buyer, but unless or until buyers are made aware of all legit bootleg labels operating out of Europe this product will continue to satisfy the unsuspecting music lover. The fact many of these titles are not available like they may be in the US & Canada doesn't help either.
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ^^^^^ Two things irk me about the gray-market stuff.

    1. The quality is usually subpar.
    2. Money talks. If, let's say, Capitol reissues a Sinatra product, and it sells well, Capitol is incentivized to issue more Sinatra product. Since they own the actual masters, IN THEORY, the quality should be good. (I know, I know....) However, if a gray-market disc sells for 40% less than the new, legit Capitol product, many people are going to move to the gray-market disc, from which Capitol makes exactly $0, and Capitol becomes DIS-incentivized to release new, top-quality product, and the only remaining option for buying certain songs new becomes the ****ty sounding gray-market issue. (I've yet to hear a good sounding Sinatra "gray market" disc. Rollins may be another story altogether.)

    To get this back onto WAY OUT WEST: Roy DuNann (original engineer) has stated that the album was never intended to be heard "dry." It was recorded dry, with the intent from the outset being that reverb would be added during the cutting stage. That doesn't mean that dry versions (such as MFSL MFCD 801) sound BAD (they don't), but it does mean that they do not convey the original intent of the production team. (Personally, I like the recording dry.)

    Matt
     
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  4. bw

    bw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH, US
    I'm wondering if the EU laws will change by 2013? Will they allow the Beatles to go grey?

    (Sorry for the divergence from Sonny, and I apologize for turning this into a Beatles thread)
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Matt,

    Listen carefull to the album again. There is a tiny bit of wet reverb on the sax channel. That's called the "DRY" version because what came later has echo dumped on it and is really the over-the-top WET version created in mastering by various engineers down through the years.

    Both WAY OUT WEST and ART PEPPER MEETS THE RHYTHM SECTION have reverb on them from the recording session. It's just very subtle as it should be. After these sessions Contemporary stopped putting ANY reverb on anything and did it all in the mastering stage (Art Pepper + 11, etc.)
     
  6. The artists themselves know the royalties situation that used to exist, pre digital, are gone forever.

    The buyers used to know the score too, pre digital, but now it's this version and that version and the other version, not forgetting the source, and the remasterer and remixer etc. etc

    Pure musical confusion, but great for forum discussion!
     
  7. Claude

    Claude Senior Member

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    Good question. It's difficult to say.

    There is a EU directive proposal pending which would prolong copyrights, but there is currently a blocking minority in the EU council (assembly of national governements).
     
  8. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    About the SACD version that was released in Asia : is that different mastering than the AP SACD? It is a multi channel (i think it just adds reverb to the rears). It's the only version I own at this time. Has anyone done a comparison of this version?
     
  9. Claude

    Claude Senior Member

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2667

    It's a two-channel recording, so there can be no multichannel remix.

    I don't know which sources were used and who did the mastering for this SACD. What do the liner notes say?
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  11. bw

    bw Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH, US
  12. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    I can't find anythiong in the liner notes about the mastering. I was hoping someone knew.
     
  13. Omnipred

    Omnipred New Member

    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    Thanks to all who replied. I purchased the OJC Remasters 24-bit version at Borders last night and it sounds good enough to me. No way am I shelling out what sellers are asking for a used copy of the MFSL aluminum version.
     
  14. ceevert

    ceevert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA, USA
    The box set is titled "The Freelance Years." The remastering is credited to Kirk Felton. I'm fine with this, but make no claims for it being the best.
     
  15. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    You're absolutely right; I made the same mistake in my post #77.

    As I said in my earlier post, it sounds compressed/harsh to me compared to individual CD versions (OJC and AP) of some of the albums that are included in the box. Pity. I usually like Kirk Felton's work.
     
  16. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    Well, I am listening to the SACD made for the Asian market and there appears to be very little reverb. There are no mastering credits. It sounds pretty good. I guess the AP version is the "wet" version?
     
  17. stever

    stever Senior Member

    Location:
    Omaha, Nebr.
    This title baffles me regarding CD, too. I don't know which one to buy -- love the album.
     
  18. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    What a great story.

    -I read Roy and Dorothy a quote from Bernie Grundman: "Roy did a lot for this industry. He showed us all how good it could be. His best recordings are not just good for their era. They are some of the best-sounding recordings of all time."

    Roy shakes his head, but Dorothy, smiling to hear her own convictions confirmed, says, "I always knew my Roy was smart." -
     
  19. nightenrock

    nightenrock Forum Resident

    So, has anyone heard this one yet? Is it a new mastering? How does it sound?
     
  20. reeler

    reeler Forum Resident

    I thought Contemporary studio albums were recorded with zero reverb with the intention that reverb would be added later in the chain. I never had this on disc (only Lp) I just picked up the 2010 concord music group remaster done by former OJC engineer Joe Tarentino whose work I like, I found nothing to fault and don't find the fact that he added reverb objectionable. It would be hard to make this recording sound bad. A good quality reissue all the way around (also has bonus tracks contained on the alternate takes Lp).
     
  21. il pleut

    il pleut New Member

    Sonny needs a piano (or guitar) almost less than anyone except maybe Ornette. I often get sick of hearing some dude banging chords behind the soloist. It's both rhythmically and harmonically restricting.
     
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  22. Claude

    Claude Senior Member

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    I find all added reverb objectionable, in the context of a purist acoustic jazz recording like this. It should not be marred by such "cheap" electronic effects.

    You need to have heard the two versions in order to notice how much the reverb is superfluous.
     
  23. monkboughtlunch

    monkboughtlunch Senior Member

    Location:
    Texas
    Which version do you recommend?
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The Acoustic Sounds/Analogue Productions 45 RPM cutting of WAY OUT WEST (and ART PEPPER MEETS THE RHYTHM SECTION) uses the pristine stereo master session tape. It has a hint of original reverb on the sax channel only.

    Sounds like heaven on earth (if I do say so myself). Find someone who has it and ask them to make you a needle drop.
     
  25. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Not much to offer to this thread except that my 1957 original mono pressing of the LP is easily one of the best sounding recordings in my collection. Amazingly, the disc is completely hammered, yet it plays with just the slightest background noise.
     
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