Adam West's Batman vs the modern "Dark Knight" version - which do you prefer?

Interesting to look at the poll and see that Adam West leads by a 10 point margin over the Christopher Nolan 'Batman'. Also nice to see some votes for the animated Batman.

 

Yes, but a psychological difference does not necessarily have to be a psychological impairment (such as OCD or emotional maladjustment). How is Batman different than the average guy? He has stronger willpower. He is more intelligent. He works harder. He is braver and more heroic.

I would argue that the view of Batman that predominated his first 40 years makes just as much logical sense as the Miller version. Both versions contain something fundamentally illogical... a guy dressing up as a bat and successfully fighting crime as a vigilante. There's nothing inherently more realistic or logical about making him psychologically impaired. The Miller version requires just as much suspension of disbelief as older versions. In a realistic world, Batman would probably be shot in the face his first night on the job. Miller isn't giving us realism, but cynicism.

Even in his first year, when he sometimes toted a gun and sometimes killed criminals, Batman was never depicted to be obsessive compulsive, incapable of normal social relationships, or emotionally maladjusted in any way.

Again, Miller introduced elements to Batman's personality that had never been there before. He made him antisocial, obsessive compulsive, mentally unstable. That had never been part of his character before. That was not a return to his roots but an introduction of totally new traits.

The Adam West series put Batman in ridiculous, campy situations. It encouraged us to laugh at him. But through it all, he acted like Batman: he was confident, ethical, determined, heroic, a great detective. Miller's Batman (and Burton's, and Nolan's to a much lesser degree) are put in situations much more appropriate to a Batman story, but they do not act like Batman. That's the distinction I see.

 

And one more thought here. Miller didn't have to do anything to counter the image of the TV show. The TV show left the air in 1968, and in the intervening years Batman comics had already very effectively returned the character to a more serious, noirish tone without needing to change his personality. Writers like Denny O'Neil, Frank Robbins, and Steve Englehart wrote serious, gothic mature Batman stories, and artists like Neal Adams, Jim Aparo and Marshall Rogers had crafted a look for the comics that was dramatic and appropriately gritty and realistic. When Miller came along the campy Batman was 17 years in the past.

One could argue that Burton needed to counter the TV show's image with the general public that was not comic readers, but he could have just as easily done so by taking his cue from all the creators mentioned above rather than Miller. It's not like there was no way to darken Batman and make him serious without making him emotionally and psychologically unstable.

 

You're embarrassed by the results so far? Disappointed maybe, but embarrassed? For whom?

 

I'm no comics historian (thank goodness), but, it sounds as if you think the 60s was all bad for comics. Maybe Batman was watered down by the code, but what about the great explosion of the silver age in the 60s? Wouldn't the Comics Code be, in some part, to thank for this boon in creativity?

To stay on topic, I think there's room for realism and escapism in comics and film.

I hated the Fantastic Four movie!!! but a light, fun version would be perfect. On the other hand, from reading the comics, maybe that was really a product of it's time, and couldn't be made today, what with all 'modern thinking' . . . Maybe Johnny Storm should be a coke addict in a new FF movie . . .

 

Batman had never been 60 years old before, either. I had no problem buying why and how the character could be so angry and bitter, since a) his former partner, Robin, had been killed by a psychotic criminal, and b) this forced the old Batman out of retirement. That, plus his frustration at the deterioration of the city, plus the impotence of the legal system, would easily make him a little nutty.

I think Miller's comic book is brilliant, and was also one of the most influential graphic novels of the last 30 years.

Yeah, I'm convinced they added some submarmonic synth to Bale's voice for the second movie. I have no idea why they'd over-process his dialog so much. Everybody else's dialog sounds fine -- even when they're in scenes with Bale. It was (as we say) an unusual creative choice.

 

"Thank goodness"? Why?? Would that be a terrible thing to be? As in, worse than hanging around an audophile music discussion forum discussing Adam West vs Christian Bale?

 

Of all the companies that were affected by the CCA's implementation in 1955, DC was the least affected - by far.

By that time, DC had retired all of its superhero comics (save the "Big 3"), and what it was publishing was as homogenized as the bottles of milk inside the big GE refrigerators of Eisenhower's USA.

I can't tell if this is a rhetorical question, but I'll take a chance that you really want to know.

Batman had gone gimmicky and "camp" LONG before the implementation of the code.

Take a look at the covers below. The first eight are pre-code, and the last two are the first post-code. Apart from the CCA stamp on the cover, can you really see any difference at all?

 

Five more (last two are post-code).

 

The Christopher Nolan/Christian Bale edition of BATMAN is teeth-grindingly pretentious, humorless and overwrought. It's an example of what someone else called "kidult" culture, whereby juvenile subjects are gussied up with big budgets and ostensibly adult themes to convince consumers they don't have to apologize for what amounts to a Mexican wrestler picture: a masked man avenging the death of his parents.

I thought the Tim Burton films struck the correct balance between humor and drama, modern and antiquated sensibilities. The films looked like the future as imagined in the past.

Among more contemporary movies, I thought IRON MAN hit the right notes for a comic book franchise, while the James Bond reboots with Daniel Craig are better than the comparable Nolan BATMAN films.

 

Adam West versions, of course; after all it IS a cartoon.

 

Because.
Your style.
Of reading.
Dialog.
Reminds me of.
William.
Shatner.

 

I voted for Batman - The Animated Series, but my real answer would be none of the above. As a reader of the comics in the pre-TV show days, Batman has never been adequately captured on film. The Biff!Bam!Pow! of the original series, the overly-stylized Burton films (that was a redundant statement), the effects and pseudo-gravitas of the Nolan/Bale franchise... all leave me with a thoroughly indifferent response.

 

Best (and funniest) film criticism I've read lately.

 

No it wasn't rhetorical, my budget has never allowed me to dabble in pre-code Batman, but I have quite a few "silver age" issues from 200 on.

Of course, if DC had already gone the sanitized route prior to the Code, that certainly explains why they were so willing to jump on board to push the edgier EC out of the market.

 

All of the covers I've posted were from an on-line source (coverbrowser.com, I believe). I don't have any of these myself, but I felt after posting so many, I should finally credit where they came from.

I think you may be on to something! EC, Harvey, and all the other upstarts were obviously a concern to DC (and probably Atlas (post-Timely/pre-Marvel). Why not jump on board the CCA bandwagon. (Dell, which published funny animal comics almost exclusively, never bothered to sign on.)

 

That's a fair point. I vehemently dislike the idea of a "nutty" Batman, but I agree there were in-story reasons why he had become that way in The Dark Knight Returns. The problem is that this characterization of Batman was then subsequently applied to the present-day, 30-year-old Batman by other writers, which made no sense.

 

I know it's silly, but I sometimes feel works of art often are deeply imprinted with the times they were created within. A Batman of the 'thirties reflects a darker time than the 'fifties and 'sixties. And some characteristics of the 'thirties Batman may filt very well in the twenty-first century world the Nolan films are screened within.

I was collecting comics at the newstand and from the holdings of my family's attics. I was first into Batman and then into the Marvel mags that started hitting the stands when I first got an allowance, I was seven in '62 for example. The Adam West Batman never seemed like Batman to me, and never really grabbed me. In fact he kept me FROM Batman for a long time, Batman seemed corny and dated and I ignored him really until Miller's jump-starting with his Eisner-inspired visual style and pulp-fiction inspired writing added one more layer of dark paint over the O'Neil-Giordano version.

Really, I'd put the TV show lowest on the list. Nolan's big screen version is far from perfect (I really hated the ninja assassin training past element for example) but it seems a good version for this century, drawing using some of the shadows from the earliest years of the comic book.

 

The Animated Series are by far the best representation of Batman in motion pictures.
The tone is captured best here.

 

Here's a nice documentary on the making of the Batman Animated series:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6QbNKmw_8Y

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbHka_Y6kLw&feature=related

Part two has a nice bit on the Gray Ghost episode which featured the voice of Adam West and how much the creators of the series respected him.

 

My thoughts exactly. The Burton films have the look and feel of both comic books and action movies at the same time. They were dark but didn't take themselves too seriously. Obviously the minority opinion here, but I think they are truly perfect superhero films. The Nolan films are just too dark and sadistic for my taste. No fun at all.

 

Interestingly, that's the very style used in the Animated Series. Gotham City looks very much like Metropolis (Fritz Lang's, not Superman's), and the cars are very 40's styled.

 

I...always......had......a.....soft...spot....for.....Adam....West's...line.......deliveries. Just think if he and Shatner worked together.

 

You guys are making me think I need to pull out my copy of the first Burton Batman tonight.

 

I think the second one (with Cat Woman and the Penguin) was even better.