The *Frank Sinatra* recordings thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Sean Keane, Sep 22, 2008.

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  1. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The Blue box.

    I have the LP issue of Rarities. That stuff might have been rare at some point, but they were all commercially issued Columbia recordings of the 1940's/50's.
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I have the 1988 CD issue (Columbia/CBS CK-44236). Nothing on it was previously unreleased, but as the title suggests, the material was "rare" at the time. Sound quality is not as good as the later Legacy remasters. However, a number of the tracks are from the original masters, whereas alternate takes were used in the Big Blue Box and later Columbia/Legacy compilations, so it's a desirable disc nonetheless. (Track listing here at the SFF.)
    sinatra rarities.jpg
     
  3. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Going through the stacks of records I've never gotten around to playing looking for needle drop candidates I found these:
    Sinatra and Swingin' Brass-Mono WLP
    Sinatra's Sinatra- Mono
    It Might As Well Be Swing(W/ Count Basie)- Mono SS rivet top left corner
    Francis A & Edward K(W/Duke Ellington)-Stereo SS

    Question, are the mono mixes dedicated or special(worth cracking open the Sinatra Basie)?
    Anything special about the Sinatra Ellington? Was that one in 68 or 69?
     
  4. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    It is my understanding that all the Reprise FS mono albums are dedicated mixes through Sinatra-Ellington in 1968.
     
  5. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Yeah, it's especially poor.
    *ducks tomatoes*

    Oh I had that one! Thanks for bringing that up. I was playing it on this terrible walkman thing with these one ounce headphones (made of foam) and started singing along without thinking to It Only Happens... As you know singing such lyrics out loud without professional or otherwise cool contexts has been a risky proposition since 1967 or so. Anyway I catch myself, look to the car next to me and - yes, staring back is a good looking young gal. She laughed. Memories. :laugh:
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Not everybody agrees, but I think that Sinatra/Ellington is quite nice in mono. I'm no fan of the stereo mix, but that's just me.
     
  7. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Do you mean the sound quality or the performances? I can't agree if you mean the latter. There are some very special moments on that album: "Poor Butterfly," "Yellow Days" and "Indian Summer," in particular. "Summer" was Nelson Riddle's favorite Sinatra track that he himself didn't arrange.
     
  8. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Production, sound. I do feel it encroached on the music somewhat too, though there are moments... seems like it wasn't getting them too engaged overall. Indian Summer is a beautiful song. It's mixed. But as far as the sound, it's just not too good in any way IMH.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    "Come Back to Me" may be the worst thing Sinatra ever released. That track aside, I think there is much to like on the album *IF* you can overlook the myriad of clams/bad notes/poor playing/vocal cracks that plague the album.

    And I agree, too, with: "But as far as the sound, it's just not too good in any way IMH." I find the mono to be far less bad (??) because it covers up (to a degree) the sin of "no blend" that plagues the recording.

    Matt
     
  10. frankfan1

    frankfan1 Some days I feel like Balok

    Try to find "Noah" from a few years later, or the HB Barnum arrangement of "Some Enchanted Evening." They are from the "what was he thinking" file.

     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Believe it or not, I have never listened to a complete Sinatra album that was issued after 1968; not a single one. "Francis A. and Edward K." is my Mendoza Line, and every album after that one crosses the line within a song or two, at which time I have punted (if you'll forgive the mixed sports imagery). Trilogy made it the furthest (about 4.2 album sides), and I have listened to (and enjoyed) the Jobim half of Sinatra & Company. :hide: [EDIT: see correction two posts below.]
     
  12. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    That's a powerful admission.

    There are some like Some Nice Things I've Missed that fall short of the Mencosa line, others, like She Shot Me Down that go beyond...

    No Sinatra fan has earned his stripes until he's sat through A Man Alone at least 6 times through.:winkgrin:
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    OH MY! I forgot about SHE SHOT ME DOWN. I know that album backwards and forwards. I rescind my previous statement. But that's the only one. I think.

    Matt
     
  14. wave

    wave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Allen Park, MI
    :D

    Me, don't ask me about empty
     
  15. DJ WILBUR

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

    it certainly might be his worst album closer too. Francis A and Albert K, I mean Edward of course, certainly fun in spots and a must to own, but such a missed opportunity to what could have been created in another time and in another place....

    I don't know a lot about Duke's work method, but this and the Ella songbook collaborations are two of the most "rushed" sounding recordings I own. A shame these meetings didn't play out a bit differently with each singer IMO. so many Duke albums are perfection to my ears, these titles almost strike me as sounding like dresh rehearsals...still worth hearing yes....
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Oddly, one of the better Ellington + vocalist collaborations, IMO, is BLUE ROSE with Rosemary Clooney, but Ms. Clooney was not at the actual sessions and overdubbed her part later.

    Too bad Billy Strayhorn couldn't have arranged that Sinatra album!

    Matt
     
  17. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Given the criticisms that people have regarding the performances on this album, from both band and singer, does anyone think that orchestrations by Strayhorn instead of May would have produced a qualitatively superior album?

    Was it really a case of the Ellington group having little interest/motivation in playing music that wasn't either Duke's or Billy's?
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I'm just saying that the style of Strayhorn basically WAS the style of Ellington's band, so I think that the result, in terms of the musical backgrounds, would have resulted in much more of a true "Ellington band" sound. As far as quality of performance goes, 1.) The band probably could play Strayhorn stuff in their sleep (since he wrote specifically for them for decades), and 2.) The band probably would have been more eager to put whatever time and effort were necessary to really do the music justice, in terms of rehearsal (which probably would have been minimally needed; see point #1).

    I can never figure out what the HECK went wrong with this album from a recording standpoint. The Jobim album was only a few months earlier, and both albums were recorded by Lee Herschberg on 4-track tape, but one sounds great and one (at least in stereo) is just hideous. I honestly think that you would be hard pressed to find a big band recording in which the big band sounds more disjointed in stereo than Ellington/Sinatra. There are a lot of Reprise albums that have sound issues, but I truly despise this particular album in stereo. It sucks, to put it bluntly. (IMO, of course.) Jobim in stereo OR mono? Magnifico!

    Matt
     
  19. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  21. Ian Bradley

    Ian Bradley Forum Resident

    Has there any sort of an authoritative account of these sessions ever been written? I used to have the Friedwald book - and it's an age since I read it - but his overblown metaphorical style of writing got a bit wearing and I understand it's not very accurate in any case. Was it there I read that the band was augmented by studio musicians because Ellington's own men wouldn't/couldn't sight read? That Cootie Williams proved particularly truculent in terms of the way a Sinatra session was typically run?

    The band could be notoriously ragged on occasions - they were not West Coast session men by any means. Different ways of working and the result is this rather strained album.

    Also, one of the sessions took place on Sinatra's birthday - IIRC. perhaps this contributed to the 'may'hem.
     
  22. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    From Nascimento Silva's PUT YOUR DREAMS AWAY:

     
  23. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Continuing with the issue of ghostwriting, can any of you confirm for me how many arrangements Billy is believed to have done for Come Swing With Me?
     
  24. wave

    wave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Allen Park, MI
    That's the impression I had, and probably from Friedwald's book as well. It would be nice if someone in the know could chime in with another source for this account. Incidentally, the Ellington sessions weren't the first where the featured guest(s) were substituted for a studio musician -- IIRC Bill Miller did some of the more challenging passages on the Basie albums and Al Viola sat in for Jobim on "Change Partners."
     
  25. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Porcino also played lead on both Basie albums.
     
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