CSG Processed Mono Master?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ascot, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    Probably due to cost. The folks at Sundazed did the digital remastering for the new CD, but I don't think Universal would have wanted to shell out the bucks to get someone in to do a new mix of it from the multis. :shake: It's not a big enough seller to get that treatment, I'd think...although I AM glad the recent Verve remaster doesn't have all the noise reduction like the earlier CDs had.
     
  2. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    I was just about to mention "Butch..." but you beat me to it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could swear that the ST LP uses the same master backing track of "Raindrops", but that half of the song is a different vocal take.
     
  3. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
  4. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Wow, never seen that before. I had a stereo WLP copy and the spread was slightly narrower than stock US & UK copies. Let us know how it sounds after you win it...:winkgrin:

    CSG Process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haeco-csg
     
  5. mike65!

    mike65! Senior Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    In my experience, the CSG process makes for very strange listening. From a collector's standpoint, this album "may" be worth $75, but not as a playing copy.
     
  6. Myke

    Myke Trying Not To Spook The Horse

    Isn't CSG what futzed up The Association's Greatest Hits ?
     
  7. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    There's plenty of info here as to what the Haeco/CSG process is. Its a process applied to a stereo mix.

    The concept was to make a subsequent mono fold down (for radio air play etc.) sound better by eliminating the decibal bumps & cancellations when stereo is folded.
     
  8. jukeboxexpress

    jukeboxexpress Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fresno, CA, U.S.A.
    Yes, this is mono. Generally, the Haeco-CSG records are stereo, only Atlantic-Atco felt the need to produce mono records using this process. CSG means "Compatable Stereo Groove". After 1968, many record companies sent special mono records to radio stations, including LP's. Making a CSG mono record is like watering the lawn during a rainstorm. The only possible reason for doing a record like this is so that it can be played with a traditional 1mil microgroove stylus or a .7mil stereo stylus.
     
  9. jukeboxexpress

    jukeboxexpress Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fresno, CA, U.S.A.
    Yes, the AGH LP unfortunately used this process. It does not appear on the tape versions, at least the r2r.
     
  10. GroovinGarrett

    GroovinGarrett Mrs. Stately's Garden

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The CD used the CSG-processed master. :mad:
     
  11. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    But not a dedicated mono - its a fold down mono.
     
  12. jsternbe

    jsternbe Senior Member

    Location:
    Knoxville, TN USA
    I don't know for sure, but I am guessing that they applied the Haeco-CSG process to the stereo tape and folded it down to make a mono record.
     
  13. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Special mono fold down for AM and FM mono radio use. Mainly sent to stations with older equipment which hadn't been modernized. Rare, Atlantic did these into 1973.
     
  14. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    well, some stickers say CSG mono, others dont, for example i have a wlp bee gees trafalgar. the sticker looks exactly the same as this one, save the -csg- part. so i really do wonder if some were a regular old foldown and others were csg'd up then folded down
     
  15. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    You are correct.
     
  16. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    post update: just got a tull wlp single, "inside"- in csg mono, omg it TOTALLY sounds different. it isnt just diff. in the rt channel like i guess the stereos are (?) but actually the vocal, sounds like its being sung through the telephone.....which for jethro tull can actually sound cool.............but NO it sounds different and weird different, not like the lp at all...i guess this single would sound cool over AM radio (?)
     
  17. Cassius

    Cassius On The Beach

    Location:
    Lafayette, Co
  18. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    OH MY GOD. the otherside- a time for everything

    THERE IS THIS HIGH PITCHED FEEDBACK or maybe itsthe flute severly csg'd the wrong way, cause it is SHRILL. i played the single over and over at that part, it does it EVERY time...its aboustely insane. i have to know if this is on all wlp 45 rpm singles of this pressing, its bizzare-- it only lasts like 10 sec in the middle of the song
     
  19. CCRider

    CCRider Forum Resident

    This high-pitched feedback is part of the song. Can hear it on CD and whatnot.
     
  20. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA
    ok i just got this Procol Harum 45 rpm white label promo BRINGING HOME THE BACON....one side is an edit, one side is unedited. the edit is minus 61 seconds of the song. the deadwax on the edit has CSG scribed into it all by istelf, (not in the matrix or whatever, but seperataly...a la "RVG"...)


    the unedited side does not. the edit side sounds mono, but im not good at these things. i could find the deadwax info and type it in if you think that would be helpful, maybe some of you know this single. was not aware chryslis even used csg-- the labels itself have no mention of it....
     
  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    US issue?

    1973 is a bit late, but Warner/Reprise certainly used CSG, and they distributed Chrysalis in the US.
     
  22. cencalphono

    cencalphono New Member

    Location:
    Santa Maria,CA
    Yes, Warner/Reprise did dabble in CSG for a short time, and Atlantic/Atco even used it on mono 45's, but A&M was probably the worst offender. Besides the Procol Harum 45, Warner/Reprise also used it on Maria Muldaur and Gordon Lightfoot titles. The largest tragedy was "The Association's Greatest Hits" LP.

    A CSG disc can easily be identified by sight and touch. The record surface will look decidedly darker and coarse to the touch. In stereo, the CSG gives a "dual presence" kind of sound almost mimicing electronically reprocessed fake stereo, but will have definite separation.

    You might have to listen to your record with headphones to better determine if it is really stereo, but it could indeed be mono. You can also play it back through a Dolby surround processor and if there is any difference in the two channels the difference will be sent to the rear channels.
     
  23. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    CSG pressings are just like any other pressings. The surface is no different.

    Note that CSG was used both for stereo releases (2/3 of the studio portion of Wheels of Fire is another example) and mono releases (Suite: Judy Blue Eyes). In the latter case, the stereo mix would be processed with CSG then folded down to mono.
     
  24. cencalphono

    cencalphono New Member

    Location:
    Santa Maria,CA
    I don't know what happenned to my reply post to you, but yes, they are visually and physically easily identifiable from regular stereo records. If you have them, you can do side by side comparisons. Examples are: The Carpenters "Merry Christmas Darling" A&M 1236(CSG stereo) & later pressings #1991 + # 8620-S. If you have access to them, many of the promo 45's by The Carpenters were CSG stereo. Compare them to the commercial pressings which were regular stereo. It's like night and day. Also check out the different releases of Free, "All Right Now" A&M 1206(CSG stereo) and 8550-S(regular stereo), another night and day experience. A&M also released an edited mono version of this record. The copy I have is a Monarch vinyl pressing and it is smooth as glass. The styrene pressings by Monarch and Columbia Terra Haute had a much more coarse surface than the vinyl ones we did at Columbia Santa Maria, although ours were decidedly darker black than the regular stereo or mono versions. I actually have all these records in my collection.

    Other examples of the difference in CSG stereo pressings are: The Fireballs, Atco 45-6569 and The Rascals, Atlantic 45-2634. I have SP, MO & PL pressings in my collection of these.
     
  25. jukeboxexpress

    jukeboxexpress Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fresno, CA, U.S.A.
    lukpac,

    You couldn't be more wrong. The difference between a CSG processed stereo record and a regular stereo record is like the Frank Sinatra song Night and Day. In the same way, a stereo record can be distinguished from a mono version of the same record by sight.

    I never understood the point in those CSG processed mono masters that Atlantic/Atco did. To my knowledge, like your example, S:JBE, I am unaware of a CSG stereo release of this song. Both my promo copies and stock stock 45s are CSG mono. The mono promo version of the CSN LP with the suite doesn't even say CSG on it.
     

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