Quick! There's a Haeco-CSG processor for sale on eBay for $400! http://cgi.ebay.com/Haeco-CSG-2-CSG...mQQssPageNameZRSS:B:SRCH:US:102#ht_949wt_1165 Maybe somebody can buy it and we can set it on fire in a ceremony, and sing Association songs...
It doesn't, actually. As long as you have good separation between the left and right channels, you're golden; one channel stays untouched, while the other is rotated by 90 degrees. Not that it isn't a bad idea to get your alignment right from the start, but not doing so won't affect undoing CSG. Shush!
I didn´t even know about that thing till I saw the Cream "Wheels Of Fire" mixes were handeled with one of those. Evil machine it was... More on that here http://monolover.blogspot.se/2012/05/creamwheels-of-fire-58203132-68-repost.html
Yes I saw that after I posted...still it's not always mentioned with "Wheels..." mix. You got a large site here and I'm still learning...
A bit here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=11005 Sitting On Top Of The World, As You Said, and Pressed Rat and Warthog do not have CSG encoding. The rest of the studio tracks (including Anyone For Tennis) do. The live tracks do not. Also, Pressed Rat and Warthog on the single *does* have CSG encoding.
I pulled out my Roland Kirk lp Inflated Tear and noticed in the fine print "The processing of this lp uses the new CSG "Stereo Logic" device, which gives the listener the best sound that can be obtained today." ARRRGGGHHH! I've got Wheels Of Fire on lp too so double arrrggghhh!
Was reminded again (in the current "Wheels of Fire" thread) about the dreaded Haeco-CSG Processor (described below by Steve H.). I'm wondering if one uses a Mono Switch on his amp (or a Y cord) if the sound of the songs will be improved... maybe to the extent that the songs processed this way actually sound good/great or will they still be compromised to some degree due to the Haeco-CSG processing? Steve Hoffman: "In 1968 when they stopped making mono albums, the record companies thought that people with mono systems needed to play stereo "compatible with mono" albums to avoid that 3 db drop when a stereo recording is collapsed to mono. Some engineer dude invented this Compatible Stereo Generator -- Haeco-CSG -- machine and when you mixed through it, the signal came out the other end "compatible" with mono. In other words, the music levels of the side instruments sounded no different when collapsed to L+R. The problem is, for STEREO listeners it sounded like crap, with no clearly defined center image."
Improved? You won't get that diffuse center image, but of course you'll just end up with mono. The overall sound of the recordings won't change. Best is to reverse the CSG processing. But again, keep in mind it only affects the stereo imaging.
I'm going to say something controversial here; Yes. I've actually been experimenting with CSG as a means of fixing albums that I feel have awful stereo mixes past the time of mono. A couple of examples are Neil Young's self titled (which was CSG on the first run anyway) and Silver Apples self titled. Both sound better in CSG folded to mono than their wimpy stereo versions. Not everything works though, on some tracks it completely destroys the tonality, I tried it on Lay Lady Lay by Bob Dylan... Horrible, horrible... A shame as that stereo mix is a joke... If you get yourself the programme WinAmp you can use the "Stereo tool" plugin to experiment. It lets you adjust the phase of the right channel by any degree from 1 to 180. The recommended settings on original CSG units were 90 degrees as default but up to 120 degrees can sound ok.
The drums are awe inspiring, so full, so punchy and dynamic, I just think they are completly wasted hard panned right. I think Dylan sounds naked in the middle there, with the drums and slide guitar hard left and right.
Anyone know of a free program that will allow rotating phase by 90 degrees to fix CSG? I have Sound Forge and Audacity but can only invert phase (I take it that rotates 180 degrees). I have a program that came with an E-MU sound card that will do it but my XP PC seems to have crapped out and it won't work with Windows 7 or 8.
Here's a 1976 article wherein Richard Carpenter discusses the CSG process with Don Elliot. It was published in Broadcast Programming & Production. Carpenters Stereo, Mono & CSG
One thing I found ironic about CSG was that in an age when record companies were trying to ditch mono records but make their new stereo releases 'mono compatible', the CSG process actually increased the amount of low frequency information in whatever deviation from lateral, which you'd think would increase distortion when playing them on early microgroove players, skipping, etc. Another thing I've noticed is that the typical CSG record has deeper grooves than non-CSG product.
It seems to affect the RIGHT CHANNEL MORE(?). The left channel remains normal and -for no other way of describing it- the sound "focused" (as it should be)...but, when you center the balance: the right comes-off very "tubby" and "blurred" and, the soundstage suddenly sounds like it's stuck in a bowl. Almost like half a Duophonic signal; where, the midrange is sucked out of the one channel's presence region.
There's no change in EQ, just a phase rotation. The "blurred" aspect is only when listening to both channels together, in stereo.
