Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #35)

So it doesn't really matter how one enjoys their music, despite your mocking.

 

I've just been playing the magnificent five-CD box set of HvK's 1963 complete Beethoven symphonies by the Berlin Philharmonic on DG. I've had this thought a few times, before and during playing this set - how would I rank the symphonies? I think the 6th has always been my favourite, partly for nostalgic reasons (it was along with the 5th the very first Beethoven symphony I heard, when I was 11) and children usually enjoy classical pieces specifically designed to illustrate storylines and/or paint musical pictures of easily identifiable and familar scenes (in this case the countryside, with its sounds, sights and smells of nature). So, in the way I've been doing my classical artist blind comparisons, here's my rankings:

#6 In its own gentler way, just as revolutionary as the 3rd and 5th were - the first true piece of instrumental programmatic music, and Beethoven's most delightful, melodically perfect symphonic piece from beginning to end. And the programme element is far more than just a gimmick; the music throughout is as vividly characterised as the subtitles suggest, with folk-like melodies and drones, country dances, alpine horn calls, rustic merry-making, bird song (not just in the justly famous "By the Brook", a supreme example of Beethoven's mood music at its most exquisite and romantic), shimmering strings, babbling brooks, thunderstorms followed by the sun breaking out etc. A work that must have surely influenced so many of the great composers up to at least a century beyond, from Berlioz through Dvorak to Mahler.

#3 This astonishing symphony was to Beethoven what Tristan was to Wagner, L'Apres-Midi to Debussy and The Rite of Spring to Stravinsky - just what audiences back in 1805 must have made of those terrifying dissonances in a development section lasting over 5 minutes (nearly as long as most symphonic first movements up until then) one can only wonder. Beethoven's most dramatically gripping symphony with a finale of one of his best melodies and most inventive set of variations (which is saying something). Just put it a notch below #6, because although its slow movement serves its purpose well in its very different way, I find the one of #6 to be more succinct and on a slightly higher level of inspiration overall.

#9 The first three movements are probably the best three symphonic movements Beethoven ever wrote, with the slow movement surpassing both #6 and #7's for sheer lyrical beauty and variety of ideas. Only the relatively weak finale prevents it from getting top spot; there's a lot of magnificent music there, particularly in the numerous variations of the Ode to Joy theme, but I don't think it hangs together that well - despite Beethoven's intentions to use the voices as an expansion of the symphonic sound, it seems more of a case of the music serving the words, rather than the other way round.

#7 The work that best encapsulates Beethoven's revolutionary use of rhythm as a structural device - all of the three faster movements are irrestistable in their combination of relentless primal energy and supreme formal logic. Plus, the slow movement is even more gorgeous than the 6th's - what we'd have missed from so much of Schubert's music if this symphony hadn't been written doesn't bear thinking about.

#5 A common favourite, and indeed that famous opening Allegro con Brio and the scherzo are Beethoven at his best - but TBH I don't think the other two quite live up to those; the slow movement has a beautiful main theme but not an awful lot is done with it and the repetitions of the less inspired fanfare-like second theme are a bit overdone - I don't think Beethoven truly nailed the art of the lyrical slow movement (at least in his symphonies) until the Pastoral - and the finale is a bit bombastic with a forced triumph in places, being too much in C major.

#1 Obviously no-one will claim this to be a masterpiece on a par with the 3rd and 9th, and as expected it's a bit underdeveloped, both structurally and stylistically closer to the world of Haydn and Mozart than the true Beethoven, but as an introduction for anyone wanting to go chronological it couldn't be better; it has a succinctness the 2nd lacks, and a delightful freshness and lyricism throughout all its movements not surpassed (although matched by the Eroica finale) until the Pastoral.

#8 A definite step-down from the magnificence of the previous three symphonies; dubbed the "Little 8th", I think Beethoven intended this both to be a relaxation in energy and ambition and a hark back to his earlier shorter and simpler forms, but I don't think its themes overall are as melodically appealing or memorable as even the 1st, even if it clearly comes from the later and more mature Beethoven.

#4
#2 The best and most memorable music from both comes from the last two movements - the Larghetto of #2 is overlong and is certainly the weakest of the slow, if not all of the movements.

(Of course bear in mind, I only consider the last three to be weak by the sheer high standard of the rest of the symphonies - they're still way above even the best of what most of Beethoven's contemporaries were writing!)

 

I love the 6th too! My favorite Beethoven symphony. Were you saying here that you like HvK's 1963 6th? I am not at all fond of his interpretation here (Walter and Boehm remain my favorites), though the rest if the set is incredible!

 

Unlike you, I haven't heard a lot of other performances to compare Hvk's 1963 with. I believe the first version I heard (on cassette) is still lying around somewhere at my family home, but I can't remember the conductor/orchestra - all the other performances I've heard have been on the radio (can't remember whether or not I've been to any concerts of it). I don't notice any technical and/or interpretive faults with this version; if there are, the sheer beauty and musical quality of the work itself overrides any imperfections.

Just out of interest, what do you find lacking in this performance compared with the other two you mentioned? I'm guessing you find the slow movement a bit too fast, for starters?

 

I'm gonna say that only the packaging is different.
It happens a LOT with EMI and a few others.

 

It's a shame there wasn't any recordings of the SS Titanic Orchestra.
Woulda been neat to hear them 100yrs later!
Really a sad day in history April 15, 1912.

 

In case anyone missed the literary reference in the movie, the string quartet performing on ship's deck after the sinking starts are playing the second movement of Schubert's "Death and the Maiden."

 

Kinda spooky given what happened!

 

No doubt James Cameron chose that piece that on purpose.

 

I was listening to Chick Corea's "Trio Music Live in Europe" where he plays a Skriabin Prelude, and that led me to put this on....

Aleksandr Skriabin, "The Complete Piano Sonatas 1-10"
Roberto Szidon, Piano
Deutsche Grammphon MG 8653/6 (2721 106) (4 LP)
Limited Edition Japanese release, #67/300

 

I agree with some of your takes on the symphonies however, the Fifth IMO still reigns among the best of LVB. The first movement is a miracle of economy. No one has ever achieved what he did with a simple motif.

Cannot agree with your take on the final movement. The lead in from the end of the third movement was a stroke of genius and it was the first time any composer had done so. Bring new subjects or other modulations to the final movement and you defeat the purpose...a brilliant use of C Major IMO. Any other changes would not have brought about the calming of the tension in the work as a whole.

 

The way I'd describe it is that my two favorites treat the work as a liesurely stroll through a summer meadow, while HvK's 63 version is like a speedwalk through the same meadow, only in the dead of a cold, icy winter. It's too fast and too cold for me overall.

 

Sounds like he'd be rather good with Sibelius - the 3rd symphony strikes me as a bit of a deconstruction of Beethoven's Pastoral.

Off topic, but where does your avatar come from BTW?

 

I really like Berglund's Sibelius, not the least because he had Brian Culverhouse, the digital golden age's Technicolor engineer at the controls. But, Berglund always has the music close to him and emphasizes the culture aspects of it to the good in my opinion.

 

It's the cover of the elusive Rough Trade issue of the CD single "Sheila Take a Bow" by The Smiths.

 

I do not know this one but I have a very favorable impression of the Channel Classics label... I collect performances of the suites so I will add this to my shopping list

 

Well I guess I have raised a few hackles here

But it was a very nice evening. Of course I own and enjoy hundreds of opera performances of the complete variety... For twenty years of my life I worked as the classical buyer for a fairly large record chain... Back in the days when there was such a thing. In the course of my job I got to learn a bit about music and meet many great artists. Some here might be surprised to know a common theme I heard again and again from these people was how to get people interested in serious music. Believe me when I tell you... The household names I spoke to about music had no qualms about people enjoying highlights or excerpts of complete works. Anyway who knows maybe sometime one of my dinner companions will be interested in going to the opera. Hopefully that would be acceptable. I will let this go with one more observation... It makes me sad that some people can only feel good by trying to make other people feel bad.

LPF I think you can come to dinner anytime with us... The wine was 2008 Casa Gualda La Mancha Seleccion Cincuenta Anniversario. Nothing too high end. Very nice for pizza

Take care my friends and enjoy the music.

 

A great song that, even if I sometimes get it mixed up with Panic.

 

Kicking it old school..

Yehudi Menuhin - Efrem Kurtz - The Philharmonia Orchestra - Mendelssohn - Concert In E, OP. 64 - MONO
His Masters Voice - The Grammaphone Co. Ltd. Holland - 1958





This is available in the gynormous Yehudi Menuhin - The Great EMI Recordings EMI: 2641312 - 50 CD box set. It was Gramophone Magazine
Re-issue of the Month - October 2009.

Anybody here have the box set? George?

 

RCA Victrola VIC-1403,from 1969.recorded 5/27-28/29,Victor Trinity Church
Studio,Camden,N.J.John Stainer's work dates to 1887,and this performance
certainly has a quaint Victorian air,aided by the early electrical recording.
since Victor had bought the former Baptist church & converted it into a
permanent studio,the Trinity Choir was not a regular church choir.no conductor
or choir director is credited.the pipe organ heard is the Church's Estey-this is
the instrument played by Fats Waller on his organ recordings.

 

I have the Menuhin box set, but haven't heard all of it yet. Will pull that item out to listen.

 

Some of my favorite Opera Highlight Records. I have a lot more in my record library.

Notice the list of world renown Artists who agreed to release such Opera Highlight LPs for their Long Plan Fans "Around the World" to enjoy.

Treigle, Caballe, Domingo, Schwarzkoph, Ludwig, De Los Angeles, Gedda, Christoff, Del Monaco, Tebaldi, Von Karajan.

Long Play Fan

 

Boito

Mefistofiele "Highlights" (Prologue and Four Acts)

Norman Treigle
Montserrat Caballe
Placido Domingo

Ambrosian opera Chorus

London Symphony Orchestra

Julius Rudel

EMI Angel Records AV 34042 "Digitally Remastered" Stereo

Released 1974

Recording Engineer: John Mordler

Balance Engineer: Robert Gooch

 

Richard Strauss

Der Rosenkavalier: "Highlights"

Elisabeth Schwarzkopf

Christa Ludwig

Teresa Stick-Randall

Otto Edelmann

The Philharmonia Orchestra

Herbert Von Karajan

EMI Angel Records 35645

Released 1957 Stereo

 

Gounod

Faust: "Highlights"

Victoria de Los Angeles

Nicolai Gedda

Boris Christoff

Theatre National de L'Opera Orchestra and Chorus, Paris, France

Andre Cluyten

EMI Angel Records 35827