Any MM/High Output MC Cartridge Recommendations for Clearaudio Concept turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Balthazar, Apr 19, 2012.

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  1. Balthazar

    Balthazar Forum Resident Thread Starter

    the pursuit of analog perfection seems to require more time, money, and expertise than i have. fortunately, there are plenty of options for people like me. :)
     
  2. VinylSoul

    VinylSoul Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lake Erie
    AudioTechnica AT150 ANV- titanium body- hollow 0.4mm sapphire cantilever $799 LPgear
    AT150MLX- $325
     
  3. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Hi Kevin, I'm late to your trend but felt the need to respond none the less. Stick to your plans of moving onto the Rega RP6/Exact combination, as it would be a better sounding as well as wiser investment in the long run. As someone whom has owned a Rega Planar 2 - 3 - P25 and P5 before moving onto my third Well Tempered Classic turntables since, I can say in all honesty as I also have used the Exact on said tables - that there's more to its overall sound then many will ever know. It's just one of those sort of cartridges that doesn't draw attention to itself and allows the musical notes to be rendered in a manner that's more refined or laid-back if you will as opposed to being thrown into your face/lap. Far to many listeners are going after what I would call a Hi-Rez sound in their cartridge choices which are more akin to a digital sound - that's not the strength of vinyl to begin with. It's about warmth - texture - tonality and true to timbre above all else. I happen to use Dynavector 10X5's and 20x2's as well as a Roksan Corus Silver - Soundsmith SMMC-2 - EMT TSD-15 and find that the Exact brings me just as much joy as the others. And besides Clearaudio tables are prone to breakage over time with QC issues with their platters and mounting screws which many have failed to mention here - whereas Rega's are designed to last with a few well chosen mods here and there - in your case with the RP6, it'd be the platter and isolation feet or adding a dual pulley unit and that's it!. Point is one plays " Tunes " while the other makes " sounds akin to digital " listen for yourself and trust your ears/sense as it'll become all to obvious which is truer to the source. Oh and I'll give the new Maestro Wood V2 Ebony its praise I do adore their sound on my table as well. But there's where I draw the line. Just speaking on what I've heard and believe to be a better option. Regards,Oscar
     
  4. Balthazar

    Balthazar Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Oscar, thank you so much for posting that. It helps to confirm my decision. Honestly, I have nothing bad to say about the Clearaudio, but I'm attracted to the simplicity of the Rega system. And if you can still manage to enjoy the Exact that much with so many other cartridges vying for your time, I'm sure it'll keep me happy for quite a while.
     
  5. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I have never heard anything about "...Clearaudio tables are prone to breakage over time with QC issues..."
     
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  6. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Good morning Kevin, As always I can only speak on the things I've heard/owned. And in all honesty............, long term furfillment in ones investment it what it's all about - otherwise it would merely come down to one of those " what if?" moments later down the road. Again Rega's don't break down - but do need a little bit of TLC and understanding in which mods to use?, as well as how to isolate them on certain surfaces. Nothing more - they merely play tunes. Be well, Oscar
     
  7. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Hi David, That's merely because your dealer isn't being honest with you!, they fail more often then not and especially the Concept model as I've spoken with a few owners as well as several honest dealers whom have warned me on said matters, as I was looking to purchase on for one of my sons as a gift last year and was told to look elsewhere. Dealers are humans after all, and are more then capable of lying as much as anyone else - are they not. Just food for thought - once again that's why it's important to find dealers that aren't thinking about profit first in so much as a buyers long term enjoyment of the items purchased as well as having a great rapport with said clients. You've some great dealers and ones that would sell a used 1945 tabletop radio to a blind person claiming that just purchased a brand new state of the art $30.000 tube amp. Just the facts. Oscar
     
  8. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Well, if more than 50% of all Clearaudio tables fail (you said more often than not) I guess I potentially wasted $12K on my Clearaudio front end.
     
  9. Balthazar

    Balthazar Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Interesting. Oscar, I find it odd that you were recommending the Concept a year ago in the following thread as "the best bang for the Buck under $1.800, as I just got telling a friend whom is looking to upgrade from his Music Hall MMF - 5.1SE, the Concept would be my bare minimum with the Well Tempered Amadeus being an the final frontier."

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=241934

    And now you are making a claim that there is some unspoken conspiracy among dishonest dealers to keep hush some vague QC issues.

    In my experience, there are plenty of great dealers who take pride in the lines they carry, but don't feel the need to speak ill of competing lines. And then there are those who seem incapable of discussing their own lines without defaming anything they don't sell. I try to do business with the former type of dealer.

    Regardless of my decision to get a Rega, I've found my Clearaudio to be completely trouble free in the time that I've had it.

    If there were the sort of massive QC problems you are proposing, I imagine the forums would be choked with mention of it. As it is, Clearaudio seems to get about the same amount of mentions for problems as any other turntable manufacturer who sells a lot of gear at all price points.
     
  10. ronankeane

    ronankeane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Oscar, I know you're just passing on secondhand information here, but could you describe what the common problems with the platter and mounting screws are supposed to be?
     
  11. vinyl anachronist

    vinyl anachronist Senior Member

    Location:
    Lakeside, Oregon
    I'm not sure if the OP is still looking or not, but a friend of mine just bought the Concept and tried quite a few Clearaudio MM cartridges and chose the Aurum Beta S as the one with the best performance-to-value ratio.
     
  12. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'm getting ready to trade my RP3/TTPSU/Groovetracer/DV20x2H and will be ordering a Clearaudio Performance SEP. I've decided to go with a Maestro Wood on it. I think that'll give me pretty big bang and will be a significant upgrade.

    It will also be a beTter match for my gear since I've been having rouble getting synergy in my system with the Rega/DV (bad interaction between sub and Rega in my room). When I auditioned the Concept/Concept MC it worked much better for me.
     
  13. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Hi ronankeane, I was told by a dealer friend a friend whom I've recommended the table too - as well as several guys whom I exchange email with in both Germany and Singapore that the most common thing is that the platters are misaligned and rub against the plinth as well as mounting screws in the Tonearms themselves working themself loose over a matter of months. And have had several owners bringing them back in over say a course of a few months or so without having the issues resolved and finally they ended up trading their tables in towards something all together different. I'd expect German quality to still be one of this companies strong points - yet they've allowed something's to slip off. It happens from time to time - does it not?. Regards,Oscar
     
  14. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Hi Kevin, No I'm not trying to say that some dealers aren't honest - but in reality we are all human beings and sometimes fail to admit the whole story. As I did recommend the table to a friend of mine in Orlando whom purchased it per my request only to call me a month later saying the platter was hitting the plinth as he stated he had taken the time to level his stand perfectly - yet over the course of the entire one he owned it, it did this repetitively until he returned it and moved onto a Rega P7. He also said the the screws that held the counterweight together would fall off as well. Said dealer friend to whom I trust took it upon himself to let the line go as he had to many customers asking for replacements and/or refunds within months of owning the table. Now just maybe this was an isolated 7-13 tables that I was told about as they could've been earlier models that merely had QC matters overlooked. But then again it merely comes down to what an end user is wling to deal with - me myself - I much rather have a table that's a tad bit more reliable that's all. Once again I can only speak on what I've been told - and of corse many man made items have flaws - and as someone whom lives outside of Detroit - I can see why many American made cars are sitting on lots............., lack of QC isn't something some owners are willing to overlook nor invest in - but then again I drive German made cars and love the fact I feel save in them. So I'm not biases at all - just that I'm into details for the sake of reliability. Peace,Oscar
     
  15. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    Congrats! I hope you love the Maestro Wood as much as I do.
     
  16. el34eh

    el34eh Member

    Hi David, I'm not trying to claim I know what's going on with these tables, as I was told by several guys along with a dealer about the Concept model not being as reliable as first thought too be. Maybe these were just earlier versions that merely slipped through without being tested?, who knows?, I just know that I have received email from 14 guys in all whom have had problems with theirs. In my mind one has never wasted funds when it comes to a quality table and/or front end. As someone whom used to sell Linn - Naim gear back in the 80's. I'm still a firm believer of the " Front End First " mindset. So no you didn't waste a time and as a matter of fact have made a sound investment where it counts - The Turntable. Be well. Oscar
     
  17. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    All I hear about this cartridge is good things. What kind of music do you listen to? I play all acoustic jazz and classical. The Dynavector 20x2H I have sounds great. It's very punchy and detailed. Perfect for jazz, but sometimes I think it sounds a bit thin in the midrange for classical.

    I'm still torn between spending the extra money and waiting for a Performance SEP or settling for a Concept sooner.
     
  18. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I've been doing a lot of Google searching lately about the Clearaudio Concept and Performance turntables, and this is the only place where reliability/build problems are discussed. I would think that if Clearaudio had recurring manufacturing problems in higher numbers than should be normally acceptable I would have found more discussion about it. It may be there was one bad run at one point that was corrected. I home auditioned a Concept recently and am very impressed by build quality and fit & finish I saw on that unit.

    OTOH my first Rega TTPSU was wired badly out of the box (disconnected internal ground) and messed up my P3-24. My replacement RP3 won't cue straight up and down, and tends to skip at the start of the first track, so I have taken to hand cuing it all the time to avoid those issues. In the end it doesn't get along well with my sub and room, so I'm getting rid of it.
     
  19. nian82

    nian82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Hi guys.
    I bought my Clearaudio Performance with Maestro cartridge in 2009 and have not had any problems. I have not heard of or read about any problems either. I still thinks my turntable sounds great and have no thoughts to upgrade. Or, maybe a new phono stage... :)
     
  20. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    I mainly listen to acoustic jazz, blues and classic rock. Mine only has about 30 hours on it and seems to be improving with each album. Jazz is probably about half of my overall listening but last night it was wonderful with the new Jack White album and the Rhino reissue of Black Sabbath's Paranoid. The soundstage and imaging with the Scout is outstanding.

    I read a lot of complaints about quality control issues with the earlier Concept units but can't remember seeing any recently so those are probably under control. That said I'd go with the Performance if you can swing it.
     
  21. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'd say the decision between getting the Concept and the Performance has been settled by my wife. She said if I get the Concept I'll regret not getting the Performance and then want to do that in a year anyway. Since she'll want to kill me for that, I better just get the Performance SEP to begin with. Smart woman, she is. :winkgrin:
     
  22. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I have a Clearaudio Ovation, and previously owned an Emotion. Not familiar with the Concept, but assuming similar build characteristics, I took a good look at my table, and have a hard time imagining how the platter could be misaligned so badly that it would rub against the plynth (there's a lot of space under the platter). I also don't see how turntable mounting screws could work themselves loose over a period of time (not exactly a complicated technology). I can understand how people might be skeptical unless someone who has actually experienced these problems could chime in.

    That said, I did have to trim some of the plastic/rubber sheathing at the end of the tonearm wires to get the arm to accommodate Clearaudio's own Talisman cartridge, which irritated me. But once I did, I ran through one of those "test records", and it passed all of the tests with flying colors. Tracking was off the charts. Oh well, I'll keep my eye on things.
     

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  23. blakep

    blakep Senior Member

    The Clearaudio Talismann is a modified Denon 103, essentially a 103 in an ebony body with possibly a few other mods that Clearaudio incorporates.

    Notwithstanding that, even the stock 103 and 103R are "deep" cartridges from front to back and present some problems with mounting on a number of arms as the back of the cartridge with the pins tends to sit very close to the end of the arm (when mounted) for lack of a better description.

    In my situation, using both stock and modified 103R's in a removeable headshell I've gone to very flexible cartridge leads to accomodate them as some stiffer leads, especially those with longer cartridge clips, really caused problems in this area.

    Most other cartridges would not be as problematic.
     
  24. ronankeane

    ronankeane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Thanks for the reply. I have a Concept myself and just wanted to know what problems to look out for and hopefully avoid.
     
  25. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I don't want to go off topic, but since I only recently purchased the Talisman cartridge, and the Denon 103 would be a fraction of the price, I was intrigued by this comment. However, I just checked, and the two cartridges are made of completely different materials (gold coils and boron cantilever) and specs are very different as well. I am not sure what you mean - are you just referring to the shape of the body? Is it designed/made by Denon? Thanks.

    I would add that I was previously using a Clearaudio "Melody" MC cartridge, and I hear a noticeable improvement.
     
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