Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #42)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Nov 2, 2012.

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  1. OE3

    OE3 Senior Member

    There is an excellent Bernstein live performance in the Baroque Basilica of Waldsassen, Bavaria of Mozart's Great Mass in C minor from April 1990, with the Choir and Symphony Orchestra of Bavarian Radio. Also on DG CD, but get the DG DVD, issued in 2006, for the full picture. It's great! Especially for Arleen Augur, who died three years later from a malignant brain tumor, and Federica von Stade.

    Would post a pic, but I have no idea how this new board works.
     
  2. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    Dunno I've had this set for a few years now and found it worthy enough for my collection.
    I'm sure there are some out there better but the differences surely are miniscule.
     
  3. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    As for Copland I have this series of 3 CD's that covers my gamut of his works.
    I find it to be of good quality and a excellent reference to His work.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then there is this which I think is the only recording of his Opera?
    If you wanna try something different for Copland this is a great recording!!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
  5. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    Klemperer's fine version from 1962 taken as an example ,wollops Rattle's 'dizzy' take on Mahler's 2nd Sym.- hands down. Klemperer never lost that majestic onward sense of what the symphony is about ..or where it is going. Rattle fiddles -crochet's and emboirders", ditters , fusses etc.. When we think of all the many other great conductors that conducted Mahler....Rattle infuriates, just thinking about many of his efforts. Rattle is another over rated 'darling' - amongst some of the present Classical mindset.
     
  6. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yeah, I agree completely with the comment about the polls that popularity trends play a major role.

    I 've seen this not only in classical but also in rock, jazz etc. where you rarely see people like Gary Moore among the greatest guitar players or Shahib Shihab among the great jazzmen.

    However, the second poll from BBC Music asked only renown conductors about their favorites, so I want to hope that this particular one reflects popularity less and actual quality more. (but see more below)

    I have mixed feelings about Rattle. I can see his vast talent, the man took the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra and raised it to world class standards. I like most of his recordings but I have noticed also how many critics praise him blindly.
    Look at the BBC Music poll, Rattle rated higher than Furtwangler, Toscanini, Szell, Haitink, Mravinsky, wow!
    I mean, he is good, but I don't think that he is THAT good.
     
  7. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yeah, it still puzzles me how the fonts in my posts always get screwed.
     
  8. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    In my opinion, Rattle is mediocre. Nothing more. Judging from his BPO recordings mostly. Pity for the people who will learn Mahler's 2nd from his recording with the BPO. Most probably they will hate Mahler.-

    However, we are talking about the Berliner Philharmoniker, EMI and some important sponsors. The most expensive music organisation in the classical world. Gramophone is a part of it. It is still ridiculous to rate him as above. All credibility is lost this way.
     
  9. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I sent you a message. :wave:
     
  10. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Rattle ain't no Mahler conductor, that's for sure.

    Can't say I ever fell in love with any of Klemperer's Mahler performances. What Fritz Wunderlich does on the Das Lied von der Erde is for the ages and the performance overall ain't exactly chopped liver. But I never feel as engaged with Klemperer's Mahler as I do when listening to Bernstein's sense of personal engagement and identification with Mahler. Bernstein's recordings of the Resurrection—any of them, btw—feel like the music is being composed on the spot. Or the Composer/Conductor's fifth, or sixth or seventh, all "Inside" Mahler, a little world onto itself. When I'm listening to the SACD of Das Lied von Der Erde with Reiner/Chicago on SACD, featurning Richard Lewis & Maureen Forrester, can't help but think that everyone else got it all wrong. Bernstein is lovely in the "Titan", particularly the second time around. But he has competition. The Third seems best served by Chailly/Concertgebouw on Decca SACD. I adore Reiner's Chicago 4th on SACD with Lisa Della Casa, a perfect choice for the little vocal finale. The Symphony of a Thousand doesn't work for me yet, Solti will do 'til I hear someone do it right. The Ninth is a puzzle. I know the Bruno Walter/VPO recording is a trainwreck, I don't care. Similarly, Horenstein with the Vienna Symphony on Vox sounds like he's leading the actual survivors from Warsaw in a perfect rendition of a heart attack. Chailly/Concertgebouw on SACD gets the music right. But the Walter warmup for the Anschluss feels like the real thing. And the Horenstein recording is heartbreaking.
     
  11. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Really? When I was in the market for a first M2, I read in two or three guidebooks that his M2 on EMI was the very best. I recall reading something like "the orchestra plays as if their life depends upon it." The damn thing was expensive at the time too. Sigh.
     
  12. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Speaking of "heart attacks" try Mitropoulos' 6th either with the NYPO or the Cologne Radio Orchestra, if you dare... ;)
     
  13. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Yes. There was a time that most guidebooks as Penguin insisted that this M2 was amazing. IIRW, this recording was one of the first that put Rattle seriously on the map. Nothing groundbreaking, be sure.
     
  14. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Both Chailly recordings you mentioned (M3, M9) are the absolute tops of his cycle. I completely agree. Speaking of Bernstein, I happened to listen to his M2 recs only after I had absorbed Klemperer's. Two completely different worlds. Bernstein although to be admired for the commitment/passion etc., he does it over-sentimetally for my taste. Mahler does not need IMO such interventions. His music is so loaded that can speak for itself.
     
  15. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Must dash to work and hence be brief, but anent those rankings: the BBC folks periodically embarrass themselves this way, having done similar exercises at least for tenors and sopranos and pianists. Regardless of the "of all time" silliness, the raters tend to weight their rankings to performers they have actually heard in the concert hall or on modern records. Unlike those of us who know the truth: a performer gets good only after having been dead for at least 30 years. ;)

    Rattle: On the basis of chance encounters with his records on radio, a buck-nekkid emperor, to my ears. Haven't systematically explored him, though, because those encounters certainly did nothing to entice me into blowing my painfully limited time for serious listening on him.

    Bernstein: Should add to what I wrote earlier that while I have not liked what I've heard of his work in Europe, I usually enjoy his recordings with the NYPO; they at the very least have spunk. Someone suggested that Bernstein just wasn't in the same league as Karajan. I won't belabor the issue (I've made my thoughts about That Man K abundantly clear to the point of tedium before), but suffice it to say that, without wandering into any "who was the greatest" thickets, I'd turn that statement around 180 degrees.
     
  16. Tantris

    Tantris Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Much I agree with above. In the first and ninth, the versions I have heard with Ancerl and the Czech Philharmonic (on Supraphon) are really marvellous, and I feel that I am discovering the music again. Horenstein´s third, sixth and seventh also seem to distil an essence that escapes others. I still need to find one conductor that can bring 1 - 4 together with Des Knaben Wunderhorn completely coherently, and then find a different voice for 5 - 7, and then a third voice for 9 and Das Lied von der Erde. No easy task.
     
  17. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    [​IMG]

    If I had to choose only one of Nielsen's symphonies, I would choose the Fifth. For me, not only this is Nielsen's masterpiece but also one of the great symphonic works of the 20th c.
    This is the cover of the famous 1962 recording by Bernstein, at a time where Nielsen was mostly unknown outside Denmark. Bernstein's version really helped this work to take off with the public and to achieve international status.
    And listening to this LP one can understand why. This is truly a stunning and very powerful performance. Bernstein and the NYP are perfectly comfortable with the rhythmic complexities of the symphony, emphasizing at the same time all the emotional elements that constitute the backbone of this work.
    The sound of the LP is good but a bit on the bright side, still very enjoyable though.
     
  18. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    That EMI Mahler 2 from Rattle was made Record of the Year by at least one, probably more English mags. Just part of the incestuous publicity push that went on in those freewheeling days to consecrate Rattle as another of 'their chosen ones'.

    I find now, when reading say the 1992 Penguin Record Guide, it becomes a laugh a moment exercise, in so many of its comments. Appearing to conveniently overlook available performances -to compare.Time has shown how many of its opinions have not held up. With certain Europeon reviewers, you always knew, if this or that " so & so" was on a recording.....no need to look any further, it got top marks all the way!. Today many of their praised records are long forgotten. Their memory is only jogged, when they may turn up amongst some now very cheap big "bundling" re- issue..
     
  19. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    About a year ago I came across Musical Collection - a promising freeware app that, with some reservations, suits my needs pretty well. It's basically a clone of your Music Collector, albeit it's still pretty raw and somewhat buggy. But it saves to the Access format and can also use a bar code scanner (on my wish list), so I decided to give it an extended try. Sometimes I send bug reports to the guy(s) behind it, and he (they) does his best to fix them.

    The main problem with all these collector's little helpers is my laziness. As you can see, there's only a small fraction of my CD collection stored in this handy program (which also does LP's and cassettes, among other formats).
     

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  20. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I used to have Music Collector but I lost it after my computer died. Now I have CATraxx, which is great BTW, but I am lazy too.
    I have too many LPs and CDs and I am not the person who would sit in front of a computer for hours every day to catalogue them. I mean, come on, my daily job is more fun than this!

    So the only thing that I have done so far is to create a special database with my most rare LPs, which are approximately a bit more that a hundred. These are not classical but 60s and early 70s psychedelic/acid rock/psych-folk bands etc. A lot of these took me a lot of time and money to find and I want to have a record of them handy.

    My classical collection has not been catalogued yet, with the exception of newly bought LPs since I got CATraxx. If you are methodic and spend the time it's actually quite useful to have a record of your collection, its value, money you spent, condition etc.

    If you are. But, like I said, I am not.
     
  21. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I am happy to see some black metal favorites of mine in your collection, like Arcturus and such :righton:
     
  22. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Especially his Mahler 2 which is so highly touted at least in the Penguin Guide that is but that is another story.
    Lousy recording. It would have been better if he kept to the score 1/2 the time.
     
  23. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I love the 4th and the 5th...actually all of his symphonies but the 4th and the 5th the most.
    Bernstein's 4th with the NYPO is the absolute best on record IMO.
     
  24. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Agreed about the 4th, If I am not mistaken, Bernstein's Nielsen is OOP which is really a shame.
     
  25. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Crap! So the Klemperer M2 sucks too? I have that and the Rattle as my initial M2's. I later added the Sinopoli set and the Walter SONY recording. (I am that at least those two are decent. I've yet to hear the Walter)
     
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