Does HDCD make a noticeable difference?

Nah

 

The difference with HDCD (for discs with peak extend) is more noticeable than the difference between the redbook layer and DSD layer of a hybrid SACD. I struggle to hear a difference between redbook and DSD, and in most cases I hear no difference or am unaware of the difference. The difference with HDCD decoding is much much more obvious.

If you have the ability to connect your computer to your DAC and can do 24 bit, try using CUETools to decode one of your HDCD titles that has peak extend. Play the regular 16 bit rip compared to the 24 bit decoded version. There should be a difference. The difference can be subtle with some HDCD titles and more noticeable with others. Or if you have the ability to author and play a 24 bit DVD-A or DVD-V disc you could burn the decoded HDCD tracks to DVD to play instead of using a computer to play.

 

Are you sure about that?

I do have that CD single. The first two tracks (from the album) are HDCD encoded, but on my player, as soon as "Interstate" starts, the HDCD light goes off.

If I rip the song, hdcd.exe cannot detect any HDCD encoding.

The effect you describe (a bigger sound when the HDCD goes off) would most likely have to do with the fact that the respective CD has the "peak extension" function of HDCD implemented. With proper decoding, the sound is noticeably less loud and more dynamic. Overall sound level is reduced by approx. 3 dB and some peaks are extended (thus the "peak extension" description).

Whether the same CD mastering would sound better with or without HDCD encoding, I really don't know.

What I do know for sure is, if you have a HDCD encoded CD which makes use of the so-called "peak extension" function, it will definitely sound better if properly decoded during playback.

For HDCD's which do not use the peak extension function (e.g. many Audio Fidelity Gold CD's), I don't know if the sound better with or without decoding. You would almost have to check on a CD player where you can manually turn HDCD on and off during playback.

 

I appreciate the advice, but as I said before, I'm better off staying just where I am.

 

When peak extension is used, there can be a huge difference in dynamics. Here's the track "Hitchin' A Ride" from Green Day-Nimrod. Top is HDCD decoded, bottom is the undecoded CD track, with the level matched (approximately).



Not a lot of HDCD's use peak extension, however. The Cars HDCD titles do, as does Neil Young's Greatest Hits.

 

Would it be possible to put together a list of which HDCD titles use peak extension and which don't? I saw a few examples of each mentioned in the thread but I'm sure that's not the full extent of it.

Btw, I bring this up as a benefit to others here. I'm doubtful it would make a difference to me.

 

On my rig, it is hit and miss. I think the Neil Young CDs sound great on my HDCD player...better than on my regular player. The Brian Wilson Smile album sounds incredible on HDCD. Some others, the HDCD encoding makes them sound worse.

 

I look at that as yet another reason not to buy an HDCD player. If you're right, then I'd have to start figuring out which HDCD titles sound better decoded and which don't? No thanks.

 

Food for thought...if you see an HDCD player for cheap, I don't think you can go wrong because IMO, the Pacific Microsonic A-D converters are great even without HDCD encoded CDs. They sound very smooth and analog to me compared to other CD players I have had.

 

HDCDs with Peak Extend

Just on this, is using Peak Extend on HDCDs kind of akin to having an amp that goes to eleven?
I mean you could just master them as normal Redbook and have the RMS at a lower level to retain the peaks. Having peak extend is just like having a limited master that can go "one louder" isn't it?

 

I understand. Getting a computer involved to that degree is not what most people would want to do. I probably wouldn't do it if I wasn't a computer geek.

The Neil Young HDCD titles sound good without the HDCD decoding. He doesn't butcher or compromise the non-HDCD playback. The differences with Neil Young's discs is such that you could possibly be better off with a high quality standard player vs. a mediocre quality HDCD player.

 

Thanks for the link!

 

Just get an Oppo universal player - it plays sacs, DVD-a, and decodes HDCD. And plays blu-ray!

 

Before things tip further into terrifying graphs and tech skepticism, I'll just reiterate that I hear real improvements with the HDCD discs I've got, and it's not just a matter of a scam involving yanking off level limits. I'm sure there are scads of engineering boffins who can prove what a fool I am.

And now, I'll go hide under my chair for the duration.

 

All I know is, I was blind tested a while back and 15 out of 20 times I could identify when the CD was played in my HDCD encoded player. Which may mean nothing since they were different A-D converters.

 

Getting back to something I said in my opening post, I heard no significant difference when I compared the Buffalo Springfield Again HDCD remaster to the original CD. In fact, I questioned whether it was a worthwhile purchase at all. And, again, I've never had an HDCD player. Now, for those of you who have compared them without decoding -- did you notice a significant difference?

 

You know what? I just checked on Amazon and saw one (BDP-103) for $500, which is something I can afford. I might just look into that. Thanks!

 

Emmy Lou Harris Red Dirt Girl sounds better in HDCD.
I have a DAC with HDCD. So I can easily compare with/without.

 

Of course there is, because it's encoded that way. A HDCD shouldn't be played in 16bit mode. That doesn't mean that the same dynamics won't fit on a regular 16bit CD without HDCD encoding. I'm not talking theoretically, I'm talking bits that are actually used for music reproduction.

This is a 24bit SACD rip compared with a properly downsampled version of 16bit:



And number 2:

 

It would be nice to have a list of CDs with peak extension. Maybe that's for another thread.

 

Isn't that what D Schnozzman provided with the link in post #35?

 

Playing back in 16Bit doesn’t matter for HDCD’s without Peak Extended - the dynamic range is identical in either decoded/expanded mode or left undecoded in 16Bit mode.

 

Yes. Even without any of the HDCD features enabled, just varying the LSB to trigger HDCD decoding can use a different filter (Pacific Microsonics I think by necessity each time due to the licensing agreement, though that was back in the day) than the DAC or CD player might ordinarily use.

In my case, I will turn down my squeezebox or transporter sfotware volume enough on HDCD discs to eliminate that signaling, which will make my Theta Gen Va DAC then use Theta's filtering, which I prefer the sound of. Those with units that use the same filter either way will probably hear less of a difference if the HDCD features are not used.

I've played with HDCD.exe and made flacs with it to compare pre and post and I prefer the theta filters by far a that point since I get most of the best of both words

 

Any reason NY didn't use it for Le Noise though ?

 

No.