Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality (and general discussion): Singles, Soundtracks, Etc.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    16-track was W-9028; 12-track was T-9030.

    [Added:] I've never been completel6y sure of the release date(s), but it's been reported that both LPs were from 1957. I find that curious, since A JOLLY CHRISTMAS was also released that year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
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  2. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Thanks Bob! So they at least reduced the price when they removed four songs ("W" changing to "T")...

    I think the first release should be 1954. I say that because I've seen copies of the 12 song version that still have a turquoise label with that 3/4 circle on it. By '56 (or possibly late '55?) that was removed.

    Now that I have the original catalog number, here's the real deal:

    http://www.popsike.com/MERRY-CHRIST...Label-VARIOUS-Les-Baxter-NM/320765075208.html

    It looks like they used a different colored label for this album initially...
     
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  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Re: Loulie Jean Norman and Norma Zimmer (coloratura sopranos)

    Here are a pair of posts copied from my FS history thread at the SFF:
    __________________

    Loulie Jean Norman

    Loulie Jean Norman was also a member of Fred Waring's Pennsylvanians, as featured in the album America, I Hear You Singing. Listen at her memorial website here: Memory of Loulie Price (1913–2005).

    Loulie Jean Norman.jpg
    Loulie Jean Norman

    She is often credited with solo vocals on some FS recordings, such as "Wait for Me" (Theme from Johnny Concho) and "All Alone" and "The Song Is Ended" (from All Alone). However, I believe the soprano vocalist on those numbers was Norma Zimmer, who was also present as one of The Ralph Brewster Singers at this [1957] Christmas carol session.
    __________________

    Norma Zimmer

    Gonzo, I've bumped up the thread where you mentioned Loulie Jean Norman [as the "vapor voice" of the Star Trek theme music]: "Wait For Me".

    According to session reports, it was Norma Zimmer on "Wait for Me" and the All Alone tracks. Loulie Jean Norman does sing the soprano part in "Song Without Words" on Trilogy: The Future.

    Norma Zimmer's was also the haunting background voice on "Look to Your Heart" from the Our Town EP mini-album.

    Norma Zimmer.jpg
    Norma Zimmer

    As long as we're mentioning Sinatra background singers, she was famous as the "Champagne Lady" on Lawrence Welk's TV show from 1960–1982. See her page on the Welk website: Norma Zimmer. [She passed away in 2011 at age 87.]
    __________________
     
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Zimmer was quite well known and appreciated in my neck of the woods, since she grew up in Seattle and "made the big time."
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    OK, kids, unless somebody has one of these:
    [​IMG]
    or one of these:
    [​IMG]
    from which they can post a clip, we may be about to have our first-ever song to have the "best" version be from the Norberg Singles set.

    You're my only hope....
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    What about LOOK TO YOUR HEART?
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've already got these:
    •Norberg -- I think the only one to use the session tapes, so very dynamic, with warm tone (although probably futzed with somewhat to achieve that)
    •UK 1953-1957 CD - Squished
    •UK boxed set CD - Squished (and wet, I think -- maybe not)
    •Dell Look to Your Heart LP - Squished
    •MFSL Look to Your Heart LP - Squished
    •N-series 1980s Look to Your Heart LP - Squished and wet

    There's no kind way to put it: ALL those squished versions STINK. The compression really adds a harshness to the EQ, especially on the vocal tone. Very steel-y all around.

    So....looking for an original LOOK TO YOUR HEART clip, but I can just about guarantee it'll be squished. (May have better tone, though.) The original 45? Could be okay. The UK My Funny Valentine? Hmmm...That LP is from 1964. Could be wet, dry, squished, not squished. Unknown.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    We've all heard Steve talk about how the This is Sinatra, Volume Two was made from dubs, but in 1959, for whatever reason, it sure looks/sounds to me like they went beyond dubs for Look to Your Heart. This thing got hit with the ugly stick -- bad EQ, compression, and at some point, added reverb to boot.

    Here's "When I Stop Loving You" on the Norberg release:
    WhenIStopNorberg.jpg

    Here it is from the MFSL LP:
    WhenIStopMFSL.jpg

    The original LPs are similarly squished, as are the majority of the CD releases of these tracks.

    "Anytime, Anywhere" suffered the same fate, only the Norberg version was not unsquished.

    On "I Could Have Told You," Larry Walsh saved the day, apparently by mastering from the session tape, preserving the wide dynamics.

    For whatever reason, this LP is a mess, sonically.
     
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    It's a pretty nicely compiled set, though I would have sequenced the tracks differently. They really seem to have tried to make a proper album out of the stray tracks, except for sticking the swing stuff at the end of each side, which don't fit. I guess they figured you could easily just stop each side before getting to those, if you wanted. Those two remind me of putting "Sloop John B" on PET SOUNDS years later, and it's placement there...
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    It's always seemed like a thrown-together hodge podge to me. Good songs, but not as "inspired" (selection-wise) as either of the This is Sinatra sets. Did this one come out in 1959 to fill a need when Frank was sitting in the corner for a year?

    The only song that I think of when I think "hits" is "Same Old Saturday Night," then it's got three Our Town leftovers....only the "hit" ("Love and Marriage") went on This is Sinatra....and one song from the Ray Anthony EP.

    Definitely odd sequencing -- I agree. Me? I would have started the sides with the swingers.
     
  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    1958 (March 31st). It filled the void between COME FLY WITH ME (January 6th) and ONLY THE LONELY (September 8th).
     
  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    LOOK TO YOUR HEART was in '58??
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Sorry, brain fart. Thinking of THIS IS SINATRA, VOLUME TWO. :blush:

    It was April '59, between COME DANCE WITH ME (January) and NO ONE CARES (July).
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    April 13, 1959, Billboard:
    Screen shot 2013-10-04 at 11.01.53 PM.png
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Ah....I can relate to brain farts!
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    By the way, Frank made a guest appearance on Gary Crosby's radio show, with musical director John Scott Trotter, prior to this session, and when your dad is a big investor in Ampex and a pioneer in tape-recording of radio broadcasts, apparently you get to record your shows with Neumann U47 mics. Sweet deal!
    MV5BMTIxMTEwNTQ0Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMjY1MjU2-1._V1._SX450_SY328_.jpg Screen shot 2013-09-30 at 11.24.31 AM.jpg
    If good tapes exist, sound should be quite nice.
     
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Boy....I would have guessed it was between NO ONE CARES and NICE 'n' EASY, but the dates don't lie.
     
  18. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    From earlier:
    The complete show is on Disc 17 of the 30-CD box set. It aired August 15, 1954.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2013
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  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Yeah, that would have worked better. Sort of like the title track to NICE 'N' EASY (mid-tempo, but the same sort of idea).

    This should have been released before NO ONE CARES, which the stalemate began after recording of...

    Given that these songs mostly weren't big hits (or hits at all), I get the feeling they wanted to give some of them new life here. Some of these songs might have not been known to people at the time if they didn't have the singles, and I imagine Capitol felt they could get people to think they were buying a new Sinatra "Concept" album. To me, most of the songs seem to go pretty well together for a collection, with a similar mood/feel. Looking over the track list, some songs seem sequenced well enough, while others clash...

    For myself, "Anytime, Anywhere" and "I Could Have Told You" fit perfectly together, with "Half as Lovely" (on THIS IS SINATRA V.2) in between. I sometimes play the three like that, and the downward slide in the relationship sung about is pretty powerful. I remember once even hearing the three played together on the NANCY FOR FRANK show - it was great to hear she likes those songs together as well...
     
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  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yep. I recall that Frank made some comment on-air about Mr. Trotter properly editing down the arrangement for broadcast, or something along those lines. A good performance, as I recall.
     
  21. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    In addition to "Half as Lovely," FS did a duet of "Sam's Song" with Gary Crosby.
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yes, a fun, loose rendition. When is Samsung going to adapt this song for advertising purposes?????
     
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  23. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Did you see I uploaded a clip of the 78? How does that compare (besides the fact that it isn't in the best condition?)
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Haven't checked the 78 yet.
     
  25. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
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