technically speaking, what is 'fake' stereo? (Duophonic, Electronically Re-processed, etc.)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by daveman, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Location:
    GB
    Sounds reasonable on headphones with some 'stereo' effects. Kinda reminds of that on the 'Stereo' UK best of the Beach Boys they used this Ronda rather than Rhonda that was featured on the mono version!
     
  2. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    No kidding. I have exactly one Pickwick Lp in my collection (The Beach Boys Good Vibrations) and on K-TEL record (a collection of hits from 1970) both sound awful. In fact they sound awful on any record player, from my Silvertone portable to my cheapo BSR turntable to my current turntables. Reading this thread has been an eye-opener, make no mistake. For example, I knew that MGM titles with the label "sounds great in STEREO" were electronically re-channeled, but I didn't realize that they didn't necessarily label all of the re-channeled records as such. I have a copy of The Best of Herman's Hermits, and The Animals Animal Tracks both labeled Stereo, but clearly they aren't true stereo (I was 12 when I bought both records, and I thought they sounded "funny" then.) While I love the songs, I realize that I should have bought the mono issues for better sound quality.

    Off-topic side note: I purchased the SACD of Herman's Hermits Retrospective, and in the liner notes I learned that the producer, Mickie Most, preferred to use studio musicians for his artists, so with both Herman's Hermits and the Animals the only thing you hear from the band members themselves are their voices. The instruments are being played by studio musicians, a la The Monkees.......
     
  3. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    Oh, I agree. Sure they aren't comparable to Bang & Olufson or something but they can sound pretty damn good. My niece started collecting vinyl but bought one of those Crosley turntables that they sell at Target or Sears. I found a Magnavox console for $15 and my brother and me took it to her apartment. Let's just say she was shocked and happy with how much better the 40 year old Magnavox sounded and asked me to take the Crosley away.
     
  4. oxenholme

    oxenholme Senile member

    Location:
    Knoydart
    Are Pickwick UK different to Pickwick USA?

    I've several of their LPs, and most are pretty good sounding.
     
  5. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    Apparently they're the same or at least affiliated. I found this wiki article with some very interesting info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickwick_Records

    Here in the US, I believe that Pickwick pressings were a bit of a crap shoot. After the Beach Boys album I bought (which I admit only cost me $2.00, brand-new), I never bought another.
     
  6. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    I also have that Pickwick budget Beach Boy album and the sound and sonics are indeed absolutely awful (and it's a thick, heavy slab of vinyl). Dance Dance Dance sounds like it was recorded off a transistor radio onto a 1969 cassette deck. Horrible.
     
  7. Michael P

    Michael P Forum Resident

    Location:
    Parma, Ohio
    I have that Pickwick Beach Boys "Good Vibrations" too. It's actually The Best of The Beach Boys Vol. 3 minus two songs! ("Frosty the Snowman" and "Surfin") I never heard an original Capitol version however I bet the reprocessing job on the Pickwick was different than the duophonic original.

    You say it was a thick slab, what I recall was the knurled edge - you could cut yourself if you ran your finger on the edge while it was turning.
     
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  8. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    Yes! It was like untrimmed vinyl. Or trimmed but not polished.
     
  9. billygtexas

    billygtexas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kilgore Texas, USA
    Pickwick used a lot of reground vinyl. If you were lucky you'd get a inner sleeve too.

    When I discovered the Move (Roy Wood's band) in the early 80's the only albums I could find (besides "Shazam" on A&M) were UK Pickwick and MFP (Music For Pleasure) imports that all had their mono singles in duophonic-like fake stereo. But they were better pressings than USA budget albums, the MFP albums were pressed on thick vinyl.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  10. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    The Capitol LPs of The Move have always been pretty common.
     
  11. quadjoe

    quadjoe Senior Member

    I just pulled my Pickwick Good Vibrations out to look, and the edge of the record is trimmed but sharp. It also never had an inner sleeve. BTW, I haven't played it in many, many years.
     
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  12. billygtexas

    billygtexas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kilgore Texas, USA
    I've found them and the United Artists albums later. But I liked the Move's early singles and first album best. That's why it was so frustrating for years until CD reissued to find them only in fake stereo.
     
  13. billygtexas

    billygtexas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kilgore Texas, USA
    The long (inferior) version was on original pressings of "Endless Summer". I always thought it was strange when "Rhonda" sounded so much better on the radio than my LP. Then I discovered that the Beach Boys re-recorded it (to fend off a potential cover version by Bruce & Terry).
     
  14. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Did Capitol sneak some Duophonics into the Full Dimensional Sound stereo tapes that were released into the early 60s?
     
  15. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    That must be the one on the Duophonic Beach Boys Today.
     
  16. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Yes. See Beatles VI or Yesterday & Today.
     
  17. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs Remote member

    Location:
    Right behind you
    Wow, yeah, they sure did ... maybe even worse, actually. I just picked up one of the Polydor first "stereo" press of Hendrix Smash Hits. Wow, does that thing sound terrible! Glad it was only a buck.
     
  18. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    On what planet? Both Capitol Move LPs were impossible to find in the day, especially Looking On.
     
  19. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    That's weird, because the Polydor Smash Hits is in mostly true stereo & sounds great. It was the Track stereo ones that were fully reprocessed & were garbage. And they (the Tracks) are rare as hen's teeth, and go for a hell of a lot more than a buck.
     
  20. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs Remote member

    Location:
    Right behind you
    From what I read the other day when I was shocked how bad it sounded, there were two different masterings/mixes of the Polydor. Apparently the initial stereo Polydors must have used the Track mastering, and it was quietly replaced with the better version in the mid to late '70s sometime.

    Edit: I found what I was looking at the other day, and I'm mis-remembering this; as Larry says, the Tracks are fake stereo, and the Polydors are supposed to have true stereo tracks subbed in. However, much of the LP I picked up sounded atrocious to me. Before I pass any more judgements on stereo/reprocessed content let me listen to this puppy on headphones and report back, even though it's tangential to this thread!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  21. rrbbkk

    rrbbkk Forum Resident

    This is a fascinating discussion.

    I recently acquired some '60s Sinatra LPs in MONO. "Swingin' Session' on Capitol and several 64-66 Reprise titles. Obviously they sound good, very powerful. Does anybody know if Sinatra's stuff was reprocessed for stereo or did he have the big budgets to accomplish both?
     
  22. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    The true Duophonic process as created by Capitol does NOT use a bass/treble, boost/cut as part of the process. There is more going on there. As I posted earlier, there is some kind of extreme comb filtering going on also which is why even if you synchronize the channels to get rid of the delay you can't then combine the channels and get "good" mono.

    Try it! It just doesn't work!
     
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  23. empirelvr

    empirelvr "That's *just* the way it IS!" - Paul Anka

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Actually the "Hold On" soundtrack LP from 1966 was the Hermit's first true stereo LP, while a stereo alternate version of "Listen People" and "Bidin' My Time" appeared on the "Where The Boys Meet The Girls" soundtrack LP, also from 1966.
     
  24. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Sinatra Sings Of Love & Things was a singles catch-up LP that is full of Duophonic tracks, but not all of them.
     
  25. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    The MOFI version only has two tracks in fake stereo.
    Hidden Perusasion sounds great on that one in true stereo!
     

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