Sinatra / Capitol: General Purpose Sound Quality (and more) Discussion Thread*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by hodgo, Nov 10, 2009.

Page 42 of 75
  1. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    In which case, I think I was wrong to set back the date for Sinatra's Swingin' Session; the date of Tuesday 1/3/61 is most likely correct. As further evidence, I notice that there was no issue of Billboard on that Monday, the day after New Year's. The first weekly issue in 1961 was published the next Monday, and it included an article about a dealer discount program for Capitol January LP releases—including "Frank Sinatra's new album"—for sales beginning January 3.
     
    Bob F, Mar 31, 2014
    #1026
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    This is an updated list of exact LP release dates, incorporating changes discussed above:

    Frank Sinatra's Major Capitol LP Releases 1954–62
    1. 01/04/54 H-488 Songs for Young Lovers [10″]
    2. 08/02/54 H-528 Swing Easy! [10″]
    3. 04/25/55 W-581 In the Wee Small Hours [also 2×10″: H1/H2-581]
    4. 05/??/55 W-587 Swing Easy! & Songs for Young Lovers
    5. 03/05/56 W-653 Songs for Swingin' Lovers!
    6. 06/25/56 W-750 High Society [Soundtrack] {SW-750: ??/??/61}
    7. 07/30/56 W-735 Frank Sinatra Conducts Tone Poems of Color
    8. 11/15/56 T-768 This Is Sinatra!
    9. 01/21/57 W-789 Close to You
    10. 05/06/57 W-803 A Swingin' Affair!
    11. 09/02/57 W-855 Where Are You? {SW-855: 02/??/59}
    12. 09/30/57 W-894 A Jolly Christmas from Frank Sinatra
    13. 10/14/57 W-912 Pal Joey [Soundtrack]
    14. 01/06/58 W-920 Come Fly with Me {SW-920: 11/27/61}
    15. 03/31/58 W-982 This Is Sinatra, Volume Two
    16. 09/08/58 W-1053 Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely {SW-1053: 11/17/58}
    17. 01/05/59 W-1069 Come Dance with Me! {SW-1069: 04/??/59}
    18. 04/20/59 W-1164 Look to Your Heart
    19. 07/20/59 (S)W-1221 No One Cares
    20. 03/28/60 (S)W-1301 Can-Can [Soundtrack]
    21. 07/25/60 (S)W-1417 Nice 'n' Easy
    22. 01/03/61 (S)W-1491 Sinatra's Swingin' Session!!!
    23. 03/13/61 (S)W-1538 All the Way
    24. 07/31/61 (S)W-1594 Come Swing with Me!
    25. 03/05/62 (S)W-1676 Point of No Return
    26. 07/02/62 (S)W-1729 Sinatra Sings... of Love and Things
    27. 07/??/62 W-1429 Swing Easy! [12″]
    28. 07/??/62 W-1432 Songs for Young Lovers [12″]
    __________________
    ~ Frank's Albums
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2014
    Bob F, Mar 31, 2014
    #1027
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  3. OldCoder

    OldCoder Well-Known Member In Memoriam

    Location:
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Matt,

    I just checked a D3 press of fairy tale, and it has two barely discernible pops in the specified location.
     
    OldCoder, Mar 31, 2014
    #1028
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Two more exact release dates resolved for the list just above:

    8. 11/15/56 T-768 This Is Sinatra!

    It's not a Monday, but I have faith in the source.* (Plus, see Matt's post in the Capitol Singles thread.)

    14. 01/06/58 W-920 Come Fly with Me {SW-920: 11/27/61}

    The stereo version was not released until nearly four years after the monaural LP! We knew this late release date to be likely, due to microphone distortion in one channel of some of the stereo recordings. This confirms it.

    *These dates come from the booklet for a 2003 Capitol compilation titled Classic Masters, which I had occasion to revisit today. The CD contains some nice liner notes by Didier C. Deutsch (producer of many fine Sinatra Columbia compilations for Sony). The booklet also confirms the 11/17/58 date for the stereo FS Sings for Only the Lonely, which was uncovered by Jordan Taylor's contact a few days ago, and all of its other dates agree with the above list.
     
    Bob F, Apr 2, 2014
    #1029
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Thanks, Bob and Jordan.

    Let's go ahead and update this old warhorse then, huh? New changes from Bob and Jordan are now incorporated here (and are underlined):

    Where Are You:
    •Original release was mono only - September 2, 1957
    •Stereo Reel-to-Reel, 3 songs absent-- Probably very late 1957, possibly January of '58
    •Stereo LP, 1 song absent-- February, 1959
    •Stereo LP w/all 12 songs (1 mono) - ~1975 Dutch pressing

    Come Fly with Me:
    •Original release was mono only - January 6, 1958
    •Stereo Reel-to-Reel -- none
    •Stereo LP -- November 27, 1961

    Sings for Only the Lonely:
    •Original release was mono only - September 8, 1958
    •Stereo Reel-to-Reel, 2 songs absent -- April, 1960
    •Stereo LP, 2 songs absent - November 17, 1958
    •Stereo LP, all 12 songs - 1973 Japanese pressing [EDIT, 2018: A 1968 Australian release predates this. See here.)

    Those (above) are the only three albums where the mono and stereo are miked differently, with the mono mix done 100% "live" in the Capitol control room and the stereo mix being done from a 3-mic/3-track setup at a later date.

    Come Dance with Me:
    •Original release was mono only - January 5, 1959
    •Stereo Reel-to-Reel -- February, 1961
    •Stereo LP -- around April, 1959

    No One Cares:
    •Mono and stereo LPs issued July 20, 1959; entered Billboard mono charts on August 24, 1959.
    •Stereo Reel-to-Reel -- not until much later in the 1960s, as part of a budget-line 2-fer tape

    Those two albums (above) are transitional in terms of recording style. The new stereo control room was not yet completed at Capitol, but the mic setups appear to be identical. It sounds as though the mono mixes were still done live in the booth, with stereo mixes being done later from the 3-track, but with no difference in mics used. (The mono mix, being done via, say, 7 or 8 faders, had much more "fine tuning" capability than the later stereo mix, which only involved 3 faders coming off the 3-track, with groups of mics being essentially "pre-mixed" for two of the tracks and the FS vocal alone on another.)

    Nice 'n' Easy:
    Simultaneous mono & stereo LPs released July 25, 1960. Stereo tape came out several months later, probably Q1 of 1961 (and sounds very good). From this point on, all Sinatra product on Capitol was recorded to 3-track in the newly-remodeled stereo control room and mixed down later for stereo and mono.

    Matt
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    MLutthans, Apr 2, 2014
    #1030
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  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I knew the stereo LP of COME FLY WITH ME was released in 1961 (likely in the later half), though I didn't realize it was that late in the year. When was Capitol's SONGS WITHOUT WORDS V/A LP (T/ST 1601) released, and when was it taken out of print? The catalog # is close to COME SWING WITH ME! (which does NOT denote stereo availability of COME FLY). This was an LP made for a "write-a-long" contest Capitol ran for people to submit lyrics to the instrumental pieces on the album to win "cash prizes" and "the chance to have your entry recorded by a Capitol artist" (we know that wasn't going to be Frank by then!). My original stereo LP has the 1601 inner sleeve promoting the contest.
     
    MMM, Apr 2, 2014
    #1031
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Paul, does your version have 11 or 12 songs? I ask because the sinatrafamily.com page (link) lists 12 songs for the US version, but mine only has 11 songs. It looks like the UK version (link) includes a 12th song, "Chicago." (One can just make out "Chicago" in the upper right corner in the photo of the front cover.)

    Mine is an F1/F1 cut, #T2700, USA (not Canada), but only has 11 songs. Both the UK and Canadian mono versions are listed on discogs.com as having 12 songs, and there is no listing for a USA mono release.

    My LP is a sample LP or a cutout (the word FREE cut into the cover at upper right), so is it possible that there was no USA mono release, as far as stock copies go? (I don't think so, but......) There are two copies just like mine on Ebay right now, and they have hole-punched covers.

    My guess is: 11 song USA release, both mono and Duophonic versions; 12 song UK release, mono and "stereo" versions.

    Anybody know?
     
    MLutthans, Apr 3, 2014
    #1032
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Your guess is confirmed by the WOW database, Matt:

    THE MOVIE SONGS (11 TRACKS)

    BRA Capitol T2700
    GER Capitol SMK74308
    ITA Capitol 54 2613031
    USA Capitol T2700 / DT2700
    ​
    THE MOVIE SONGS (12 TRACKS)

    AUS Capitol-Encore ENC9681 / SENC9681
    GBR Capitol ST2700 l=yellow
    GBR Capitol T2700 / ST2700 l=black
    SPA Capitol T2700
    ​
    That's Brazil, Germany, Italy, and USA for the 11-track version; Australia, Great Britain, and Spain for the 12-track. (The "l=" notation refers to label color.)
     
    Bob F, Apr 3, 2014
    #1033
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  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    MLutthans, Apr 3, 2014
    #1034
  10. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs Remote member

    Location:
    Right behind you
    Hey, finally something goes right with my copy of this LP! Heh.
     
    Arkoffs, Apr 3, 2014
    #1035
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  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The Sinatra Family Discography page is wrong.

    I see no reason to doubt it, Matt, but because the Discogs label description includes "EMI," the Canadian issue came from the UK release, not the US version. Here are some reasonably clean images of both side-by-side, and it can be seen clearly that the US LP (Duophonic release pictured) lacks the song "Chicago."

    The_Movie_Songs-UK-vs-US.jpg

    BTW, the US release date for Capitol (D)T-2700 was July 1967.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    Bob F, Apr 3, 2014
    #1036
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  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Based on an entry in Nancy Sinatra's book, Frank Sinatra: An American Legend, I can fill in one more exact release date in the above list:

    18. 04/20/59 W-1164 Look to Your Heart
     
    Bob F, Apr 6, 2014
    #1037
  13. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    It's interesting that rushing Christmas is nothing new!
     
    MMM, Apr 6, 2014
    #1038
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  14. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    One additional LP—which I did not place in the above list because I don't consider it to be "major"—was the 1954 seasonal compilation, Merry Christmas to You! (W-9028). This was a collection by various Capitol artists which included the two sides of Sinatra's '54 Christmas single, arranged by Nelson Riddle. A Billboard ad (see here) appeared 11/20/54 for the album, but the single had been released a month earlier, circa the week of 10/18/54.
     
    Bob F, Apr 6, 2014
    #1039
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Anybody know when the core stereo albums started being release with an ST prefix rather than an SW?
    SinatraNiceEasy ST versionDetail.jpg

    Also, I had no idea that "The Works" was offered on 8-track by Longines:
    SinatraTheworks8track.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
    MLutthans, Apr 6, 2014
    #1040
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I was unaware that Sinatra sued Capitol again in the mid-80s (from the Milwaukee Sentinal, April 6, 1985):
    Screen shot 2014-04-06 at 4.33.13 PM.png
     
    MLutthans, Apr 6, 2014
    #1041
  17. GJC

    GJC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Camas, WA
    How was the lawsuit settled?
     
    GJC, Apr 6, 2014
    #1042
  18. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    MMM, Apr 6, 2014
    #1043
  19. wave

    wave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Allen Park, MI
    According to this post by Bob F:

    The settlement forced the inclusion of the Capitol name and logo on those Pickwick comps.
     
    wave, Apr 6, 2014
    #1044
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Wasn't that the earlier lawsuit? I've got Pickwick comps going back to something like 1968 that have the Capitol logo on them. (...or maybe I'm confused!)
     
    MLutthans, Apr 6, 2014
    #1045
  21. wave

    wave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Allen Park, MI
    wave, Apr 6, 2014
    #1046
  22. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The 1985 article reports: "He [Frank Sinatra] states that since September 1963..." Just another skirmish in his ongoing feud with Capitol.
     
    Bob F, Apr 7, 2014
    #1047
  23. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Location:
    Quebec City, Canada
    Love that album! I've got a Mint mid 80's German pressing which is quite nice. I found it odd that it had also been released in Japan on red wax as a 10".
     
    Simon A, Apr 8, 2014
    #1048
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I think it was a 10" album initially, then was expanded to 12" format with the addition of other songs.
     
    MLutthans, Apr 8, 2014
    #1049
  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    In the U.S.? Initially a 12" 16 song album for (I think) one year only, and then reduced to 12 songs. Maybe there was a split part 1/2 10" set too?
     
    MMM, Apr 8, 2014
    #1050
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