LS50 - am I crazy?

Keep what sounds best to you. Call it hype or promotion or internet bandwagon, there certainly is a lot of it. It's what keeps people churning gear whether it's needed or not.

 

You are not crazy, I prefer my Paradigm over LS50. But you are not getting the best out of the LS50. It can sound great.

As Agitater said, you need to properly position the speakers to get the best from them.

Sitting them 3 ft apart on a desk is not a good idea. I have it in my bedroom now and just ~5 ft apart. Sitting about 5 ft away sounds really good.

Try at least placing your speakers 5 ft apart. Expeiment with sitting position and speakers position. If you are sitting about 6 ft away from the speakers, place them on top of a pair of stands of proper height, place them may be 6 ft apart and start from there.

 

As mentioned, speakers may get good reviews but still have very different voicing. Preferences vary among us to some extent, and not to mention our rooms. Some rooms are big some are small. Shapes of rooms are all different. And we tend to fill our rooms with different things, soft and hard things, and amount of these things vary. You need speakers adapted to your actual situation and your preferences. The JBL L1 appeared to be good speakers during 1990s, and I think good "vintage" speakers are good today, such as the older B/W Matrix series 2, Dunlavys and Snell speakers.

 

It’s not unreasonable at all to decide you like the JBL’s better. I’ve discovered over the years that price and constant press coverage don’t always add up to satisfaction.

 

“I guess I just expected the LS50s to make me say, "holy $%^&this is unlike anything I've ever heard before"

That’s what my JBL L100 Classics make me say - every time I listen to them.

 

Too bright? Get rid of the silver. Silver sucks. I'm a Copper Age man. One time I dropped money on silver Van de Hul speaker wire and couldnt get rid of it fast enough. I gave them to a friend who used to be an engineer for the BBC in Australia and he couldn't stand them either.

 

I demoed the LS50s and was totally underwhelmed. The dealer said that they had been used for only a few hours and needed over 100, ideally 200, hours to get to optimum performance levels. My view is that dealers should demo products at their best so I looked elsewhere.

The biggest problem in the British hifi industry is inept dealers, especially the big chains. Their unprofessional staff are often sloppy and have little or no technical knowledge. Then there are the snake oil claims and even barefaced lies...

 

Seems like a bunch of nonsense. I can understand maybe a LITTLE break in adjustment. But this idea of components sounding like garbage, to suddenly become amazing after 200 hours is ridiculous. Seems like a stall tactic to give your ears enough time to adjust to the ****tiness. By that point it’s less likely to result in a return.

 

Well, who knows how long certain drivers take to break in. Some materials probably need more loosening up than others and it is a gradual process. You can't just play one song and have them be fully broken in. So I can buy that some speakers might take 100 to 200 hours, which really isn't very long when you consider the lifespan of a speaker (20,000 hours? 50,000? 100,000?).

It's always possible that the dealer just opened up a new pair and didn't have the chance to play them much. If I was a dealer, when I open a new pair of speakers for demo I'd have them playing non-stop for the break in period. However, any customers who listen to them at the start of that period, well, you can't really control that.

 

Although I have experienced speaker break-in to be real, I agree with your post.

Imagine the quality control person pulling a pair of speakers out for inspection after assembly, gives them a thumbs up for proper construction, listens to them and says, "these sound like crap." The production supervisor says, "that's what they're supposed to sound like until they get 200 hours of play time, then they sound amazing." Makes perfect sense, no?

 

From KEF's website:

CONCLUSION

Enjoy your new out-of-the-box speakers and smile with the knowledge that no matter how great they sound the first time you play them, things will only get (slightly) better. EDM fans and shredders will require a short break-in period, while fans of piano concertos and folk music may require a few more hours. Either way, we're talking in the neighborhood of thirty hours of playing time to get your speakers playing to their potential.

Some Facts About Breaking In Your New Speakers

 

Right, and from engineering standpoint, how do you design for that? How can you make incremental changes in the design phase? Also, why is it assumed the result is always going to be better? What if after 200 plus hours the bass gets flabby etc?

 

I tried the LS50s and I was disappointed. It was an underwhelming experience. In comparison, I had a set of cheapo Definitive Technologies SM45 speakers which held their own against the much more expensive LS50s. With the exception of slightly inferior imaging, it was a strangely tight competition.

The JBL would have a significantly different presentation and frankly, if you like the former's flavor, you likely won't enjoy the latter's... and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

Feel free to break them in for 100h if need be before making your final judgment but in the end, if key elements of the JBLs aren't part of the LS50s (and they theoretically shouldn't be) then I can't see placement or breaking-in changing your mind.

 

I would think that the speaker would already exhibit a sound, or character that you like, then may loosen up a little and get better (while retaining the same general sound. I find it hard to believe someone would be severely underwhelmed, and then after 100-200 hours find them to be great. My guess is that you probably would’nt like them much more after 200 hours.

 

I had my Quad actives for several months before they really opened up and the tweeter exhibited a less woolly character. At least 200 hours, and maybe even then some.

 

There should be changes in T/S parameters of a driver if there is a break-in period. I have not seen evidence of long term break-in in terms of driver T/S parameters, but know that a few loudspeaker constructors have measured differences after one minute play of a driver. There may be specific drivers that change their T/S parameters after some longer playing but I've not seen those.

 

I'm going to say for the same reason that shoes always feel more comfortable the longer you wear them.

In terms of how much difference a broken in speaker would make sound-wise., it probably depends on the speaker and just how much change happens during break in. There could be effects that aren't so obvious. Like a driver that has loosened up my be easier for an amp to control. It may also lead to frequency response changes (e.g. greater bass output or more natural bass). How that bass interacts with the room will also then change, for good or bad. Etc.

Anyways, this issue is kind of a moot point. There is no need to critically evaluate a speaker when it's brand new. A person should just let them run in and then decide if they like them at that point. If only because we don't really know for sure about break-in, so we may as well eliminate as many potential variables as we can.

 

Not exactly. Hype, the verb, specifically means effusive praise and attention that includes exaggeration.

I’m sure there’s an unjustifiable, over-the-top review of the LS50 and the LS50W, but I haven’t come across one so far. The point is that I think sometimes the attention and praise paid to a particular product is justified.

I also think that no matter how widely liked a home-run speaker happens to be, it can never be all things to all listeners. That’s why there are plenty of people who prefer other speakers over the LS50 and LS50W.

 

I see your point. Hype has a negative connotation for sure. But there is a lot of room for interpretation. The first definition I see when I Google this word doesn't say "that includes exaggeration" but rather "often exaggerating it's importance or benefits". The word "often" suggests exaggeration is not necessarily part of the hype.

Other definitions focus on constant promotion to get people to buy something, get them talking about it, or convince them of it's importance, etc.

I'd say a lot of the above has happened with the LS50. Effusive praise and attention for sure. Exaggeration? Probably not, but I don't think you need that to hype something. Exaggeration crosses a line - it's no longer hype, it's borderline or outright deceit. Hype could simply be about excessive promotion.

And I also kind of see it as hype because when I read about the LS50 I think, man, I really should like this speaker. People regard it as a legendary product. And maybe it is. But it didn't grab me personally and it clearly hasn't grabbed a lot of other people. As you said, it can't be all things to all listeners, which is why one needs to shut off the outside noise and simply try it for themselves. There is a heck of a lot more discussion of the LS50 than there is any other competing speaker, possibly even if you took all other competitors combined!

 

At the very least get yourself some speaker isolation. The Auralex Mopads work well, I have them under my LS50s in one system, or better still (and more money), a set of Isoacoustic Aperta stands. I have a pair of Soliloquy 5.0 speakers on them on a dresser on my right, and at an equivalent height on record storage cubes on my left. They do their job, and are angle adjustable if needed.

While I always liked the LS50s since first purchasing them (used here on the Forum), I found that as many have said they really shine with a tube amp. I first used mine with a solid state Luxman L85v integrated amp from the mid-70’s. Then a Fisher 800c came my way and the KEFs sounded even better. I should add that I use mine with a subwoofer, but did run them for a while on their own before adding it to the system.

 

Great advice.

The first step the OP (and anybody else who is auditioning speakers in a shop or at home) should take is ensuring that the speaker position, stands, floor location and unimpeded listening position are set up properly. I don’t totally disagree with @Strat-Mangler when he suggests that you can often get a sense of what a speaker will do even when it’s not ideally set up. But the OP has a pair of LS50 speakers sitting on a desk, about 3-4 feet apart from each other.

The point is that when someone has taken the time to do the best possible set up in a given room but then doesn’t like the speakers, he’ll know for sure that he’s making the right decision to return them. If a properly set up audition turns out really well, then he’ll make an equally good purchasing decision. In either situation all other considerations, including the praise of magazine and online reviewers, will cease to matter.

All of us should do whatever we can to avoid being lazy, procrastinating audiophiles and do the work needed to properly assess components we bring into our homes.

 

Three types of listeners not likely to enjoy LS50s: bassheads, headbangers, and scallywhops.

 

Well said.

 

I was not taken with these speakers, although concentric drivers are going to do certain things extremely well. Thing is with speakers, the placement and room have so much to do with the way they sound. I didn't audition them in an ideal setting, and I'm not convinced the amplification was right. I suspect I could have given myself a better impression, but in the end there's something about the signature of a tweeter that is related to the materials used. I can always tell what that is, and I decided I prefer a silk dome generally. You may be getting great clarity out of the LS50s and may be hearing more weaknesses from you system and more specifically your source. The JBLs may be a bit more forgiving. I'd give them some time to break in and put some real effort into positioning them so you hear their best, then decide.

 

Thanks again to all for the input on this topic! I spent the evening positioning them around the room on some 30in high stands and certainly saw dramatic improvements from both speakers, as I was able to get them about 6'8" apart while maintaining an equilateral triangle to the listening position. This was with the speakers 17in from the back wall. I got much better performance from both in the lower frequency ranges. I can now more clearly pick out some differences in the speakers. My "I don't have all the audiophile vernacular down" observations are as follows:

The LS50s do offer slightly more detail. I can relate to the comments regarding harshness in the highs, but it's not driving me crazy or fatiguing me over short periods.

The JBLs have a fuller sound. They are more laid back, but I don't find it to be problematic as far as a lack of detail goes. I don't hear an inability of any one instrument to cut through the mix.

So where I am now is that I can pick out some differences, but I definitely can't call the LS50 the clear favorite. This is certainly good progress and I'm glad I took the time to do it. I'll continue to move things around and evaluate.

If I had to decide right now, I would go with keeping the JBL and using the funds elsewhere for system improvement.

I'm going to go listen to the Rogue Sphinx and an RP-1/Atlas combo on Friday in a properly set up room, and I'm taking the JBLs and LS50s along with me to demo against some Focal speakers. A Mytek Brooklyn DAC will be in use.