I agree - so much of this show is a fantasy version of the times, dreamlike even. Look at the time spent in Paris. Beautiful scenes but definitely romanticized. Tony Shaloub spends his days in the cafes talking philosophy and he doesn't even speak French. It's a little like magical realism.
But, you "believe" it. "Truthiness". [SPOILER ALERT] Stars Hollow is not a real place, either. But it's a place you want to spend an hour listening to the Gilmores self-caffinating and chatting. [/SPOILER ALERT] I think the thing we "experts" miss about writers and producers and directors who play fast and loose with historical accuracy is, there are others in the audience with more of a willingness to suspend belief in service to immersing themselves in the storyline. Yes, I can get drawn out of a show when they illustrate a dramatic point with a hit song that shouldn't exist until three years later. But, what if the sentiment of the song is contextually correct anyway...and the show's target audience is a demographic age for whom from their perspective, that song has always existed? What if that beat exists, not to conjure up a sense of historical accuracy, but rather, ring true of dramatic accuracy? Yeah, I can't get past the distraction that somehow I feel cheated by somebody attempting to present a "world" to me with which I am familiar, and disrespecting my perspective. But, like Jerry said every Labor Day Weekend: "It's all about the kids, Shecky..."
I dunno. I think there's a line you have to walk in a historical TV series or film where I can lean towards letting them be off by (say) 2 months on a song's release, but much beyond that, accuracy is important. A friend I had in the 1970s and 1980s was one of the consultants for the 1977 Elvis TV movie, and he screwed up by not only showing RIAA Gold Records with the 1970s logo in Elvis' 1956 "Graceland" mansion, but he also allowed the show to use Norelco color cameras and zoom lenses on Elvis' Ed Sullivan Show appearance. Needless to say, the latter should've been RCA or Marconi B&W cameras at that time -- CBS was completely opposed to color after they lost the "color war" to NBC/RCA, and held off on going color even on Ed Sullivan until 1965. And the cameras would most likely not have had zoom lenses. My friend was miserable about both, and said they got "hundreds" of letters on the gold records problem. I've heard from other critics that their biggest problem is that Mrs. Maisel herself is a little too quick and witty, and that real-life comedians carefully shaped and honed their act so that they could get the most laughs out of each joke as part of a long routine... not just make stuff up on the fly, which is how the show presents the budding comedienne. But I think you have to give them this conceit, just as (as I said earlier) we buy into everybody on the set of West Wing or Newsroom having the Harvard street-smarts imparted to them from their slick & witty Aaron Sorkin dialogue. Almost nobody really speaks like that in real life... but it's fun to imagine that they do. And I'm willing to suspend my disbelief just enough to buy into Mrs. Maisel's improbable comedy instincts.
I congratulated DP David Mullen on how beautifully they recreated the look of Paris in 1960 for Mrs. Maisel, and he replied, "hey, we actually flew to Paris for 3 weeks to shoot those scenes!" My jaw dropped, because I thought for sure they found some locations in NYC and just changed the signs and cars to fake it. Nope, it was real Paris in 2018, disguised as Paris in 1960.
Vidiot, you must see how your two paragraphs up there contradict each other in terms of what makes desirable television in historical narrative. Just the first one alone concerning the Elvis production, shows how an "expert" can easily lose sight of the diffeence between a filmplay "putting you there", and "putting you in a place you can accept as 'there'". Elvis is one of the most widely-regarded entertainers of our time (that is, he's not exactly a "niche" performer), with a huge fane base coming from an immense general-public pool of interested viewers with a casual-at-best curiosity about many details. Really? You think 50,000,000 Elvis fans smelled a rat when they saw the Norelco cameras? That makes my case for me. And then you yourself do in the next paragraph, touching on how we like the dialog more than we care about the accuracy, concerning Maisel. There was no Aaron Sorkin dialog back in the 1960s, we learned we liked it, and still respond to it. My own example was always Neil Simon: if everybody in real life had to stop talking to compose such witicisms to respond to another character's witicism...the play would take 4 days. But...it makes for great entertainment, so, you go with it.
I am not going to discuss historical accuracy in. this post. I understand that the Mrs. Maisel show, much like Mad Men and Breaking Bad, is built on dialogue and events which are more snappy, fun, quick witted, remarkable and exciting than real life. I suspend my disbelief as I watch all three shows in that regard. I have enough dreary, slow, boring realism in my real life. Why would I want more in my entertainment?
Just like jazz musicians have songs and frameworks that are the framework for their improvisation, nearly all comedians have themes and jokes that they repeat night after night, but I believe that real comedians such as Richard Pryor and Robin Williams were certainly capable of making stuff up on the fly, and I accept the premise that Miriam Maisel is smart enough and quick enough on her feet to improvise on stage. You could nitpick any show and argue that no ad man ever has the perfect pitch every time like Don Draper or whatever. It’s fiction.
Finishing Season 2 now. I liked the show but agree with what the couple articles posted. It's a very broad comedy and as believable as I Love Lucy but at least Lucy was a way better mother than Midge (note: I Love Lucy is one of my favorite shows). There is no true antagonist in the show so Midge's "struggles" aren't really struggles. Her and Joel's breakup is not difficult at all nor does it affect her career. Her parents care about for a minute that she is doing comedy when they find out and it's silly that she kept it a secret so long. Especially when it was known that she was going out every night and working all day. There is no reason for her not to do it. Like it was said she has free daycare and has money so there is no push/pull there. I think the only reason she has kids because it adds a layer of Joel and Midge's relationship. Other than that there are no point to have the kids there as it has no effect on her comedy aspirations nor does it ever show the motherly side of her personality. There should be more depth to Midge (other than the last 60 seconds of the Season 2 finale). Comedians are a delicate breed. She doesn't have that quality. There's not much emotion with her. She's more concerned about her hats, hanging out in the Catskills, or picking out white for her wedding. All the career opportunities come to her pretty much. I'm sure that being a female comedian in this era was 100x harder than what we see here. I don't agree that this is one of the best comedies of all time. I would say it's one of the best on currently. It is shot beautifully and the music choices are perfect and I don't mind that they go out of era. It's actually pretty brilliant. Despite the broadness, the acting is so good you can look past the unrealistic aspects of it. It's entertaining but not deep at all, simple as that. I also don't know how this go past a couple more seasons. What would the struggles be? She has money, comedy or not. Has family support. She can go either way with Ben or Joel. She either goes up or down on the comedy circuit. Not sure what the end game would be here. But the scenery and the cast are pretty to look at so I'll go with the journey -whatever it is.
I will just say I agree with most of your post. For me this show has all the strengths and weaknesses of all of Amy Sherman Palladino's other work. She is one of my all time favorites when it comes to fast witty dialogue, but her drama always seems forced and somehow off the mark to me. The last couple minutes of season two rang completely false to me. She did the same things countless times in The Gilmore Girls, which I also liked. I do like this show but I'll go with good and not great.
I disagree with this point. One of the most powerful scenes in Season 2 was when Abe stumbled upon Midge’s set in the Catskills and was horrified to see his daughter discussing her sex life onstage. I find it believable that in that time and place, Midge’s parents would not want their daughter pursuing a career in comedy. They didn’t even understand why she took the department store job at B. Altman after Joel left her. As you note, she doesn’t have to work, and her parents can’t understand why she would want to work instead of marrying the handsome doctor and becoming a “normal” housewife again. All of that is a very plausible conflict to me.
I've actually never seen her other shows. No desire to watch Gilmore Girls. I agree on the last scene of S2. I mostly meant it was an attempt to show some weakness/fear in her.
I agree but the conflict goes away rather quickly. They don't want her to do comedy, work, etc. but they let her continue without much of a fight. They let her do pretty much whatever she wants when you think about it.
The show is fundamentally a cotton candy fantasy of late 50s/early 60s New York, much like a Broadway musical, or a classic Hollywood romantic comedy such as Pillow Talk. If you analyze it like it’s a gritty documentary about its era, you’re going to be disappointed.
For a show set in the late 1950s/early 1960s New York nightclub era, especially with the Gaslight specifically included, we almost have to see the very young Bob Dylan as a character either next season or in the season after that. Now that could be a comedy vein to mine. If Midge and Susie strongly dislike young Bob for example, that has the potential for some funny scenes. Also, as young Bob's appearance at the very end of "Inside Llewyn Davis" seemed to me to signal an end to the career path of singers such as Llewyn Davis, young Bob's emergence and influence could push Midge into Vegas and the Hollywood Palace circuit, the old show bizzy part of the entertainment industry , as she would not fit with the rougher hewn folk brigade coming to the New York clubs--or would she?
The end of Season 2 suggests that Midge isn’t going to be playing clubs anymore: she’s headed for the big time. I have the Rolling Stones Ed Sullivan DVD box, and one of the episodes the Stones appeared on also features a very young Joan Rivers doing a routine not a million miles away from Mrs. Maisel’s. I suspect that’s where Midge is headed in future seasons.
We just finished season 2. Wow. I preferred the season 1 finale as it showed Midge triumphant in her quest whereas the season 2 finale seemed more formula, setting up a lot of "to be continued" events for season 3. Still, when the writing is sharp, this show is on fire! S2 E9 was brilliant. Question, was the Lenny Bruce/Steve Allen duet in the S2 finale based on a real event?
As I understand it, the actor who played Bruce really studied the tape of the original performance (it's on YT) and reportedly nailed it.
The funniest show in ages, and the critic doesn't think it's funny. Keep in mind she (the author) won a Pulitzer for criticism...
I believe I spotted a barcode on the back of the book that the father is reading at the same camp - Steiner's.
'Nerd' is one of the keywords in the entire Happy Days TV series - about the 50s but made in the 70s. The 1950s themselves would have carried regional uses of slang from place to place, so 'nerd' was likely being used more frequently in some areas than others. I don't see how its use would be out of place in Maisel.
Finally watched the two seasons last month after various recommendations from friends. LOVED every second of it.Checked off so many boxes for me that I felt a wee its sad when it was over.The next season can't come soon enough!
They're probably regretting adding the baby daughter into the show - throws the whole 'free to be you and me' dynamic for a loop. Midge could probably get away with being a decent hit and run mom to the son - with all the grandparents and Joel around to take up the slack and the kid old enough to start school - but she's also got the raising of the daughter to contend with. Maybe that will factor into the storyline of S3, maybe not; at the end of s2, Midge was contemplating whether to go on an overseas tour with the Johnny Mathis-like character.
'Illustrate' is what the song is doing, though - if we're talking about the use of 'Happy Days Are Here Again' over the flashback and present montage of scenes from their old apartment. It's not meant to depict real-time in a scene - like playing on a record player or radio. It is superimposed upon the scene, and it works since it's of the era, generally, and especially viewing the show as large part memoir and love-letter to a particular place and era. The song was written around 1929, if that's any consolation (ironically, right in time for the Great Depression!)...
