Toning down brightness

I didn't and I'm not "thrown off", so you're OK, but you're changing the subject/your theory now - nice parse job!
sounds just like some cable ad abstraction, all scientific and stuff! : - )
(fair game, what with alluding to Nelson Pass' work and quoting Conrad Johnson's product literature and all)

anyway, all kidding aside, my comment was in response to your first paragraph (post #36) and is 100% appropriate

the impact of (or absence of) the silver content is non existent within the audio bandwidth - that's my story and I'm sticking to it

yeah, capacitive reactance is a real thing, no argument here, but a little bit of silver's not going to change the final outcome or results one bit - within the audio bandwidth and at the output voltages of stereo equipment - not even on the back of a Denon DL-103! : - )

I think I acknowledged that wire most certainly can affect the ultimate sound quality of a system - just not for the reasons that you have tried to propose

all of my remarks are based on the assumption of copper conductors manufactured with a good purity of copper and not some green tinted junk

Ohm's law - learn it, live it, love it : - )
Michael

 

Whatever "material" cables they used in the recording studio; the idea is to obtain a playback that doesn't degrade the sound any further, which is why if you visited 20 audiophiles with state of the art equipment, about 18 or so, (of the 20) would be using silver cables. Silver is the metal that is considered to be the best conductor of electricity. A known, accepted fact that goes way back, well before the dawn of stereos.

 

All of high end audio is based on the accepted fact that "everything" in the signal path matters", certainly it matters what material the signal flows through.Copper is used more cause It is cheap.

 

both metals are excellent electrical conductors
the conductivity difference between silver and copper is irrelevant when talking speaker wire and interconnects (audio use)
Irrelevant
Same goes for gold - I bet those same "audiophiles" have gold plated termination all through their systems too - right?
well GOLD is less conductive than copper
if people hear a difference between a copper wire and a silver one - EVERYTHING ELSE BEING 100% EQUAL - (termination, dielectric, cross section etc) that difference is due to the placebo effect
it's not just a one-for-one deal
ambient temperature and the level of purity also are important factors that can affect measurements between the different metals
last but not least - DENSITY
Copper can achieve a better resistance score with less material than silver, the resulting cable will be a more flexible and lighter wire and most importantly, cost less to make (or to take, depending on which side of the deal you are on)

like solar, wind power, batteries, artificial intelligence and electric cars (just to name a few subject areas) - only about 1 tenth of 1% of the population actually knows anything about any of it

same goes for electronics

 

Been there, done that.

Speaker placement made the largest difference for me. Bringing the speakers closer together (About 65% of distance to listening seat) and toeing off-axis were game changers. Adding a rug with a sound dampening mat underneath helped too. Changing cables and what not didn’t make any meaningful difference for me.

 

To realize major changes w/ cables often requires try many more things than people try. or spending more money for the really superior stuff. Sidestepping with cables = no good.

 

Schiit Loki is the easiest and probably the cheapest solution to tone-down the highs without losing details and overall sound quality:

 

Hah!
Tone controls.
I have them, and rarely use them - they're usually defeated.
On the rare occasion I'll play something that needs a bit of help they're useful.

I'm playing an album at the moment that sounds like it was mixed down on too bright monitors, so when played back flat it sounds sat on, with no air and space to the high frequencies.
A couple of rock gods on the album - walking into some town in Mississippi.
I have the treble control tilted all the way up, and whilst it doesn't make the recording sound great, it does make it sound more acceptable.

 

I have this little Loki in a $10k system and use it maybe once or twice a month, on some recordings that need small adjustments in bass or treble. It simply works and works well when needed.

 

Speakers and how the interface with the room have the most effect on your sound.
Start by moving the speakers forward and backwards then alter the toe.
Potentially this will give you the most sonic change and is easily revers able.

It is doubtful changing cables will give you enough of a change.

Personally resorted to altering the cross overs on a pair of B&W speakers was the most convenient way to tame the tweeters.
(I have never used your exact speakers but that brand tends to work best with more powerful amps than you would expect)

 

You could perform a reEQ job on the files concerned.
Most audio editing programmes have an equalizer hidden somewhere, and you can play about with the EQ and save the result.
I've been playing around with the aforementioned rock gods release from 1998, and whilst the results I'm getting might not be perfect, the resultant files make the original release sound broken.

 

Silver has no sound? It's a conductor?

If cables can't/don't affect the sound then I'm baffled by many threads here and throughout the internet and an entire industry of manufacturer's, sales people and consumers over said cables.

Did they buy them just for the pretty coverings and good looking connectors?

 

THIS is the "science" that needs to be done. One has to isolate the source of the 'issue.' Throwing parts at a system, non-systematically, is not an efficient approach. Go one component at a time, and see what changes. And start with actions that do not involve purchases; speaker positioning, re-do all connections, etc. Then start with what objectively should be the weakest element. And try to borrow, not buy, alternatives. Most dealers are happy to loan.

 

Re: silver vs. copper cables. Even most people who are not particularly fans of silver cables, do know they hear a difference in the way they sound. The one thing in my experience is that silver cables always are extremely pure sounding. Even the best amps are made using solder with a much higher silver content than usual. If you look at many cable manufacturers websites, their lesser priced models have copper wire and their top cables often use silver wiring. Most manufacturers would snicker at the idea of their cheaper copper cables performing anywhere near their top silver cables. They hear them everyday and simply know that is not so. Some of the most respected names in cables llike Kimber would not even be making silver cables, if they did not believe in their superiority.

Silver cables are like electrostatics speakers in that if well designed they are hard to equal for purity of sound. There may be other aspects of their sound that you may or may not care for and might decide to go for something else, but if you are into "cleaner than clean" sound; silver cables (and electrostatics speakers) are "must" hears. I thought most everyone knew that.

 

If it were my system and I was trying to fix this problem I'd focus on the following:

1) speaker positioning

2) room treatments + measurement equipment

3) if all else fails, new speakers

As others mentioned, careful it's not the recording or a particular set of recordings. Plenty of stuff out there is/was intentionally recorded, mixed, and mastered to sound "bright".

Cables would be just about the last thing I'd mess with.

 

Two words:

Marketing.

Money.

 

solder does not make a properly executed electrical connection - it just holds the mechanical connection in place
a couple arguable areas where this is not entirely true is PC work and wave soldering

solders alloys with silver content make for stronger (physically) connections, BUT, silver bearing solder requires higher working temps to flow, ergo: is not the best choice for electronics work (anything delicate like polystyrene caps or ICs)

except for free air point to point work where and on which all the connections are made first mechanically as mentioned above - PtoP tube amps (high heat on chassis) guitar amps etc.........selecting the right material is just good practice, not "hi-end" or "high performance"

for delicate electronics a good eutectic is indicated

silver bearing solder exists for a valid reason (strength) but has been hi-jacked by the marketing folks of the world to make (extra) bank - thanks to that great word "silver" and what it implies (I find that ironic in today's tech crazy world but whatever)
that is all
aside from the fact that the percentage of silver found in most alloys is negligible - 62/36/2 being the most common
silver bearing solder exists for two reasons - strength and resistance to heat - the presence of the small amount of silver in the alloy has nothing to do with conductivity
I thought most everyone knew that
Michael

 

Cables are the first thing a lot of people try to "finish" off the balance of their systems. Someone is flushing down the toilet many of audios most respected companies when they try to dismiss cable companies as marketing and profit. The last time I checked, you can get at least somewhat superior cables for a few hundred or so from these companies. I cannot even count how many amp and speaker companies do not even make anything priced under $3,000. I guess people who do not understand cables, view them all as something simple and unsophisticated, when it is really only their lack of understanding that fits that description. Audiophiles with the best sound know their sound would not be what it is without their serious cables. Most cable compants back up their cables performance with a 30 to 60 day money back, in home trial. Another reason to be highly confident and skeptical of naysayers. That virtually every respected audio designer,reviewer and dealer also vouches for the improvements is no small thing either.

 

hi!
you should start a new thread - this one is about using cables to EQ a system (or rather, "do you think it will work to EQ my system - it's too bright?")
it's not a pro or con discussion on wire
Michael

 

Kinda what I was thinking. Who knows what God-awful remastering's they're pumping through streaming services.
Seems 'bright' is the new brick (from the one's I've heard)

 

I have a Tidal subscription and even on there you can find a lot of horrible remasters with loads of compression and nasty eq. I much prefer to play my own LPs and CDs. I have Tidal mainly for travel and checking out new to me artists and albums.

 

For decades it has been recommended by audio magazine writers to experiment with cables, in order to get that ideal tonal balance that makes your system sound really locked in. There are other ways too, but its one of the most common. "Equalization"as Chavez put it, might be too strong a word "on purpose".

Pick your religion carefully. On the one side you have Chavez and the cable naysayers. In the church across the street with totally different beliefs you have Nelson Pass, Andrew Jones, John Curl, the late Harry Pearson of TAS etc. etc. ALWAYS the smart thing is to listen for yourself. Religion is based on belief and faith, not on deity's that you can actually see, and hear. The 30 to 60 day home trial money back guarantee that most cable companies offer, is something you can see, touch and hear for yourself. Unlike religion, which is totally based on faith & believing. Trying things out for yourself is obviously tangible.. & the right thing to do and the right way to go about it.

 

Would you please describe your room size, speakers placement and your sitting position in relation to room boundaries?

If this youtube "Woong San - Vivaldi Song" is harsh in your setup, it could be your room...

 

Please don't mischaracterize, or characterize at all for that matter, my thoughts on wire - they were quite clear (what I wrote above) and stand up on their own
I am not a "naysayer" - and I don't care who if anyone agrees with me, that's what makes life so wonderful - choices

Most of what I posted was that there is no inherent benefit in wasting the money for silver interconnects and then SOLDER of all things and I stand by that 100% (I also touched on, objectively, why)

I also don't solicit audio equipment advice from English majors or the scribes who work for the audio rags

The other names you dropped are all people in it to win it and to sell stuff (which is fine, I subscribe to the capitalist model)

I make all claims and choices based on, FIRST AND FOREMOST - my ears and #2 - what I can measure and see

Everything else is, as you put it, is "religion"

Michael

 

There is quite a few ways to tone brightness. Restive loading, speaker placement, room treatments and cartridge choice all play a role.