Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

"Zen Roxy" is gorgeous. Very picturesque and the most "Karekare" of all the Kare Kare tracks, in my opinion. It's no pop song, but it's so evocative, relaxing and beautiful that I can't give it any less than a 5/5.

Music like this makes me sad for demise of this version of Crowded House.

 

"Zen Roxy" is unlike anything else Crowded House ever released during their initial run from 1986-1996. First, it's an instrumental. Second, it's far more atmospheric than melodic. It's a track I sort of dismissed for a long time, it first having been released as a b-side on the "Nails In My Feet" single, but surprisingly omitted from the 1999 Afterglow compilation. Over the years, it's grown on me and I definitely agree that it captures the vibe and feeling (at least as I imagine it to be) of the Karekare setting. Nick's bass serves as the lead melodic instrument here, which is unusual enough. Mark's lap steel guitar provides color to the track. I'm assuming that Neil played synth/keyboards on this track. The sound of the ocean both introduces and leads us out of this track. It's not a song that I return to often (thankfully it was reissued as a bonus cut on the DE of Together Alone, allowing me to replace my old rip of the b-side with a high quality version), but when I do, I find it calming and soothing - quite 'zen', as it were.

3.5/5

 

Learning about the Zen mixes certainly allows one to understand the naming convention used on this track, but it leads one to assume that somewhere there is a track with Roxy in the title for which a non-Zen mix exists... But I'm sure Jeremy has already confirmed that this isn't so... Which is puzzling.

As for the track itself, yes, it's very zen. But it's also over-long and not a little boring. It's pleasant enough but doesn't really hold my attention. I find this one hard to score: I only ever dole out 1s to recordings that I really can't listen to. Zen Roxy certainly doesn't fall into that category. And yet, a 2 would be very generous in comparison to other tracks I give that rating to. Ho hum. 2/5 it is.

 

"Zen Roxy" is certainly an unusual track, being an atmospheric instrumental. Even though there are no lyrics it makes me imagine a quiet night at Karekare, the waves rolling in, a full moon in the sky and not a soul around. It's a very beautiful and meditative track, in fact I wish it was even longer than the 6+ minutes it is now.
4,5/5

Happy birthday to this forum thread! I am glad I discovered it back in July and joined the discussion in August (after first having read every post on the first 99 pages). So great with all insightful and devoted comments about the songs! Thank you very much Lance for starting the forum and to everyone who has contributed! I only wish I had joined earlier, would have loved to be part of all the discussions about the Split Enz songs as well. I am hoping that when the forum has discussed all released songs it will start all over again. It could be the remastered Deluxe Edition discussions, with new comments added by those of us who joined later as well as additional comments by Lance (home drafts, studio comments etc...).

By the way, an important album turns 40 today - "True Colours" was first released in Australia and New Zealand on January 21, 1980. Happy Birthday, "True Colours"!

 

True Colours came out a few months before I was born... Thanks for that mortal reminder!

 

I love Zen Roxy, although I would love it more if was a little shorter. It definitely has the Together Alone vibe. In fact, I think a shorter version of it would have been a great album opener, leading into Kare Kare.

4/5

 

A nice b-side and a very mellow listen. It doesn't quite merit being so long though, so I have to deduct half a mark for that.

3/5.

 

Yes, that would work. Perhaps I need to have a go at compiling a double-LP edition of this album.

 

Zen Roxy doesn't seem that long to me, but it is, at 6:44. It reminds me of a more laid back companion piece to Brian Wilson's Let's Go Away For Awhile (if even more laid back than that track is possible.) I've wondered if it's unused overdubs from Private Universe which were then manipulated in ProTools to change the tempo and change the pitch. The mix/sound of the track also anticipates Martin Glover's work with David Gilmour, although I think this is much more successful.

I don't go quite as far with this one as @Lance LaSalle, but otherwise I agree with him completely. 4/5

 

I always pictured Zen Roxy as a closing track but I’m now convinced it can be a great opener. I especially love the fade out on a hypnotic synth riff and ocean waves. It’s also an excellent showcase of Nick’s bass and yet again, Mark’s haunting steel guitar.

I don’t think it’s too long because it needs space to develop. This is the one Together Alone outtake I consider a truly finished product. 4.5/5.

 

Zen Roxy sounds to me like one of those tracks that the salesperson in the tech store plays when they're trying to impress you with what the speakers they want you to buy sound like. I don't mind it, but it's just sort of pleasantly there in the background, like leaving the TV on when you're home sick for a day.

3/5

 

Zen Roxy

The comedown after the high of the album. The morning after the night before if you like.

It’s ok. 2.5/5

 

"Zen Roxy" is gorgeous! Beautiful, calming ambient music that reminds me of Pink Floyd's The Endless River (which, coincidentally, was co-produced by Youth, Phil Manzanera, and David Gilmour). It's a shame this didn't make it onto the album in some form. 4/5

 

Zen Roxy is not the type of music I would normally listen to, being a) instrumental and b) ambient. But for some reason it works for me. Maybe because it evokes the magical 'KareKare sound' of this album or maybe it reminds me of Private Universe, I'm not sure, but I know I like it. A mark off, however, for no lyrics.

3/5

 

Our votes for "Zen Roxy"

1-0
2-1
3-4
4-4
5-3
Average: 3.5833

 

Today's song is "Newcastle Jam [Zen Mix]", written by Neil Finn, Mark Hart, Nick Seymour and Paul Hester.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/4i64veviRZWBtzQBXJJ3kK?si=T3oAhr-3QiaOSsotW3EZDw

"Newcastle Jam" was originally performed in Newcastle Australia on March 20th 1992, after a day spent swimming at the beach and was included on the fan-club release Newcastle Jam. (A fantastic concert, one of Crowded House's very best.) An edited version of this with a "clean ending" was also released on the Recurring Dream live bonus disc in 1996. The song was a contender to make the album until quite late in the Together Alone sessions, if I recall correctly from the Bourke book.

The studio version, recorded in Karekare and produced by YOuth was released in 2016 on the Together Alone deluxe reissue.

This is another "Zen Mix", indicating that only four faders were allowed up at the time while mixing.

 

The lyrics are the usual Neil mash of incoherence; with some splashes of Catholic guilt, anger, frustration, humor and stonerist vague-ness.

The song is super rocking, I love it for it's sound. There is no real metric for measuring hardness of rock, but for my money this, along with "Black and White Boy" is the hardest they ever rocked. It doesn't really sound like Together Alone (due to all the extra elements being mixed down, no doubt) but it sounds great. To me, this is the sound that Crowded House maybe might have pursued had Paul Hester not jumped out and had the band not broken up. I generally include it on my "lost Crowded House" album with the 1995-1996 stuff and it fits in well.

The live version by the way has more prominent synth in the background.

As much as I like the track, I think they made the right choice to not include it. I get that the band themselves seem to have really loved it, but I think it's a step down from the best of this era.

4.3/5

 

"Newcastle Jam" is an odd one. It was apparently written the same day it was first performed in concert, on March 20, 1992 in Newcastle, Australia. That version (with the sloppy sudden ending) was the first one we all heard, as it was released in 1996 on the bonus live disc that came with Recurring Dream: The Very Best of Crowded House. Very surprised, then, was I to learn that they had brought the song with them to Karekare at the end of 1992/start of 1993 to record properly as part of the Together Alone album sessions. I didn't know about this until this studio version suddenly popped up as a bonus track on the 2016 Deluxe Edition reissue of that album. Why this relatively slight song was chosen from among the many Crowded House live "improv" songs performed throughout the years to be converted into a studio album track remains a mystery to me, other than that the band members must have liked its jammy characteristics (jamming being something that Crowded House almost never did in the studio). Indeed, the studio recording is a full minute longer than the live version, being padded out by a lengthy instrumental jam in which all members of the band are fully engaged with the "rocking out" meter turned up to eleven.

Despite reports to the contrary, I have to doubt whether this track was ever "seriously" considered for inclusion on Together Alone. In contrast to the first three studio outtakes we've discussed, I don't think this one would have fit well at all on the album. The fact that the "Newcastle Jam" title was retained indicates, to me, that the song wasn't under real consideration (otherwise they'd have found a more appropriate title for it). The lyrics don't reveal their intent to me either. Ultimately, this is a fun diversion - and in the context of a bonus track, it works and I can enjoy it for what it represents. The band playing as a unit and having a bit of a goof-off. It's a lot better than "I'm Still Here"!

3.4/5

 

It's their "Helter Skelter", isn't it? A cerebral band in their prime, and every now and then they want - need - to rock out with gusto. It's far from being among their best songs, but A for effort. 3/5

 

Well regarding consideration of it for the album I may go back to the Bourke book and check if there is any direct quote from a band member, but consider that this is a “Zen Mix” and possibly other elements were recorded that sound more in line with the album; and Neil seems to have decided that Crowded House was an actual band that particular year and this was showcasing that side of the band which had never appeared on record, as you mentioned.

Add to that feelings of nostalgia for a great day in 1992, the band may have just been really more fond of the number than perhaps it deserves.

 

Where do you get the notion that the released mix is a Zen mix, Lance? That's a new one on me.

As for the song, well, I love the live version. It has real energy and, although the lyrics are unformed (obviously) they're no worse than the ones Neil tries to shoehorn into the melody on the studio version. However, that latter version is trying too hard. They're trying to capture something that happened spontaneously, and lightning rarely strikes twice.

The live version: 5/5.
The studio version: a disappointing 3/5.

 

It may not be. Probably isn't.

I didn't think it was a Zen mix before this morning; but it's listed on both Spotify and YouTube (from Universal) as a [Zen Mix], but that's very possibly a mislabeling on both of platforms. I'm at work so don't have the booklet handy: on Wikipedia it's called [studio version].

 

@robcar
More info on Newcastle Jam from Bourke book, my memory was a bit garbled:

NEil and Nick were in London to arrange the the running order of the album....Mark was on vacation visiting family...when he got a call from London to join Crowded House in the studio. They intended to do some more recording to complete 'Newcastle Jam'and add it to Together Alone. For family reasons, he was unable to make it, and the idea was dropped.

 

And I'm at home now and there is nothing in the TA booklet that says "Zen Mix" on Newcastle Jam, so I think Spotify/YouTube are just wrong, @Paul H

 

It's mislabeled, as are some other tracks on those platforms.