SVS-1000 or Rythmik F12

My current sub is a Jamo C 912 which I think is okay especially for the price of $200. I have no complaints but I have a bit of budget and I know I can get something better. There SVS is $400 and the Rythmik is $630. Would that SVS be a significant upgrade over the Jamo?

 

Are you buying new or used? Going on the SVS site it shows the SVS-SB1000 Pro for $599. The Rythmik F12 is $1049 new from Rythmik. I have no experience with SVS subs but own two Rythmik F12SEs. The SVS subs are very well reviewed and if I didn't have the F12SEs would consider SVS.

I'm very happy with the F12SEs. I'd be curious if anyone has compared the Rythmik to the SVS. The one negative about SVS is the website. Just trying to get a price on the SB1000 Pro is a challenge with all the pop ups. That site is just way too busy!

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000-pro-subwoofer
Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12

 

There is a sale on the SB-1000(not pro) for $399. Worth it?

 

I don’t know where you see this, I imagine SVS or another store is trying to get rid of their inventory. Those are not being made any more. I verified this with SVS.

Not that it’s a bad thing, it’s still a good subwoofer but you don’t have the controls you do with the pro model. I suspect it may not be from an authorized dealer? But if it is, SVS will certainly service it if there’s any issues.

I can’t say whether that sub is better than the Jamo or not. If the Rythmik has the servo control it might be better. I would speculate if your current sub’s full retail price was only $200, then either of these would be better.

I have the SVS SB1000 Pro model, paid $499 for it before the recent price increase to $599. I believe having the three band parametric equalizer and remote control app is essential. IMHO of course. Here are my settings. Without the notch filters the response would be quite different. I currently have flat response down to 20 Hz in my room.

 

Here is my in room response taken with Speaker Meter app using white noise. The lower graph is the noise floor. I do have a bit of bass boost on using my preamp. I do like bass! And it’s not ruler flat, but very good IIUC. There are likely peaks and nulls that are not seen at this resolution, but I don’t want to know about them. The gentle downward slope is actually recommended IIUC.

 

yeah its in worldwidestereo(very reputable) is selling them for that on their ebay store. Does that phone app make a difference? And is the SB-1000(not pro) worth it for that price?

 

I'm not sure as I'm not familiar with SVS subs. @Rick58 seems to have answered your question quite well. Maybe contact SVS and see if they have any customer returns or B stock SB1000 Pro units in stock. Seems that if you stretch your budget the SB1000 Pro would be the better choice.

Here's one...

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000-pro-black-ash-outlet

 

I didn’t mean to scare you with the charts and stuff, you can still get really good sound without the EQ and measurements. It just won’t be as flat, most likely. My room also has a pretty good amount of treatment which contributes to the overall sound as well as making things more flat response wise.

Many folks on the forum undoubtedly use REW to measure their rooms. I have it (it’s free) and a microphone that could be used. But honestly I don’t want to know the room response to higher resolution then I have shown!

 

Wow, I’ll have to berate SVS again for being greedy. 20 bucks off a (now $600) B-stock item doesn’t seem like very much. They only recently around Christmas raised the price from $500-$600 on the pro model. I still think it’s worth it at $600 to get the extra control. But if $400 is your hard limit, the non-pro model is still likely “better“ than your current $200 sub.

I’d suggest if you could stretch your budget, at $579 the pro model is still a better choice. I and others on the forum can walk you through adjustments if needed. The main thing the parametric EQ does is allow you to shape the response to not excite your room’s acoustic modes as much. Without this, and/or room treatment, there will likely be large peaks that will make certain bass notes sound much louder than they should. That may not be a bad thing aesthetically, but it’s not what the original artist intended. That said, I do have a mild +4dB bass boost using my preamp. Just because I like it.

 

The other thing the parametric EQ (and room treatment) does for you is suppress ringing of those modes. That ringing smears the sound in the time domain, I never appreciated how much better things would sound until I got panels and put them in.

yes it can get expensive, but I’m sure one can DIY to some extent at least, GIK and others sell parts that one can use.

Just having the sub EQ available will help in the low bass, but the room treatment does this for the entire spectrum.

The increase in articulation especially is astounding. Things sound much clearer than before. Everything I put on sounds brand new, it is a little disconcerting at times, maybe it’s not for everyone. But I do feel like I’m hearing more of even the old recordings than ever.

 

F12....once you go servo there's no going back.

 

Oh man I really want the F12, but its $750 when you include tax and shipping. That SVS is $430 tax and shipping included. Is that $300 difference significant? I have my finger on the mouse pointer ready to order either!

 

Let’s revisit where you can get a Rythmik F12 for $630?!? Or $750?
I’m asking for a friend

 

Oh snap all this time I have been talking about the F12 but I meant the L12. So then there ya go. Is the L12 worth the $300 more than the SVS SB-1000?

 

I don’t have any experience with the L12 (I have an F12), but I just realized they offer it in white. I may grab two L12’s to match my gloss white Revel F36 towers.

 

As a Rythmik owner in a treated room, the SVS Pro model will probably work out better for you. Non-pro without the PEQs then I'd go back to servo first.

If you go the whole 9 yards and measure your room response, treat the room, and PEQ, then I'd say the servo is tough to beat. If you have ringing from the room and can't tame it then I'm not sure the tighter servo sub would be that noticeable.

Note, I've never heard an SVS and have Rythmik's feedback on max for the tightest output, least amount if driver ringing.

 

Wow, the L12 has both Servo and a single channel PEQ. Maybe that's worth it? I don't know what the Servo does actually, but it seems to suppress the CONE ringing after application of the audio signal. I was talking about the ROOM ringing acoustically with the sound ...

The single channel PEQ will do you SOME good in this regard, seems like it would help at least 'partially' to tame things. I haven't read thru the procedure, but imagine it's to find/calculate the main room mode, and use the EQ to suppress (notch) the response at that frequency as shown in my graphs above.

I'd suggest looking at the L12 delivered price vs. the SVS SB1000 PRO delivered price, and then decide. Might be a difficult decision! but if it's considerably less $$$, the L12 might just be the cat's meow. Again, I or others here like Kyhl can help you set things up. Great discussion!

 

Wow, cool again. The PEQ section looks 'right' in what it controls, very good. The PEQ gain is from +3 to -12 (MOST likely would be used in the '-' range, one of mine is set to -12dB I think). The Bandwidth is the 'width' of the notch. This would be set likely by ear or measurement (as would the Gain (or suppression)). The Freq IMO could best likely be calculated based on your room dimensions. This is what I did, and verified with measurements. Thinking the 'LOW-music' setting is best for music? and the other settings are similar to any sub's, except the 'Delay/Phase' (which is the same thing actually, I think) is continuous from 0 to 180 degrees, rather than 0 OR 180, which most subs give you. I guess in the specific case of this sub, that's equal to 0 to 12 milliseconds (I imagine at some center frequency, haven't done any math!).

I used measurements at the crossover frequency (50Hz) and playing a spot tone at 50Hz, using my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter, to set this. I went in 20 or 30 degree increments until finding the 'peak' response, which turned out to be right at 180 degrees. Oh well. YMMV of course.

The SVS (PRO) would give you a little more filtering (EQ bands) to work with, but no servo electronics.

Good choice either way, IMHO. Congrats on selecting probably the two best subs in their price classes to compare.

 

Sorry, to answer your question, I'd say ... if at all possible, forgo the SVS SB1000 and decide between the L12 and the Pro version of the SVS SB-1000.

IF they're the 'same' price ... flip a coin! I bought the Pro, but might get the L12 if given the choice today, I didn't know about the PEQ of the Rythmik subs. I will say it's very nice having the remote control app !!! My preamp has extensive remote control so it works well in my system.

 

what is this showing me? Is this like the crossover only more in depth?

 

I wish I was as knowledgeable as you so I could set up my F12SEs properly. I tried REW and was totally overwhelmed by the whole the process. I just ran Dirac room correction and have been happy with those results.

I only use my subs for multi-channel music, movies and TV. For two channel music I don't use the subs and like the results. But I do wonder how the subs if set up properly would sound with two channel music. I contacted Jeff Meier at AccuCal to calibrate my system. But due to Covid he is no longer traveling and only offers remote system calibration. I've considered it but it seems like quite an involved process to even get started.

 

Yes. The Parametric EQ (three “bands” for the SVS Pro models, one for the Rythmik) is a way to tweak things for flatter response. It’s like a tone control … but with finer control over where and how wide the filters work. Hard to explain!

Multi band EQ was all the rage in the 70s and maybe into the 80s for high-end audio. But then fell out of favor, even having tone controls was seen as a sin. EQ is certainly still used in live applications and in studios. You may have seen a rack mount EQ with a whole bunch of sliders on it.

 

Hey, having the Dirac or other room correction does things for you automatically so there’s nothing wrong with that. I think the subs certainly would help with two channel music as well, but it sounds like you’d have to set them up manually. There’s lots of information on how to do that out there. I and/or others can certainly help you. Maybe do a search here and elsewhere on setting up a subwoofer so you’re familiar with the basic process. Setting up the parametric EQ is most likely done after the basic settings have been established so that’s not a waste of your time.

I don’t know the specifics with how you have things set up but assume the LFE channel is being used with the multi channel set up and that’s being managed by the room correction software. Then I assume you’re using the other inputs for the two channel music. I don’t know if there’s a way to set up the subs that would ignore their own settings when used with the LFE channel input. You might have to set things up for two channel use and then run the Direc calibration again. Seems like this would work, as the response would be shaped by the internal settings of the subs. Then the room correction software would apply less correction in the subwoofer range.

 

Hey I don’t blame you one bit, I’ve looked at REW and I have a microphone that could be used but I also did not even want to try it. I used the REW Room Simulator part to see how things should look and in doing so moved my subwoofer to midway along one wall instead of being in the corner. The room simulator showed that that suppressed one of the modes in my room, which was good because I have GIK Tri Trap corner bass traps in the corners. So now my sub is almost directly to the right of me in the center along the right hand wall. It’s adjusted properly so I do not hear it as a separate sound source, but it certainly contributes to the low end and overall sonics.

With the control app, I have two setups, one has 6dB lower gain overall, and there’s a few recordings I have that I use that one with. Those recordings have the deep bass mixed in at an extremely high level, probably to make up for people that don’t have subwoofers. Sort of like the way a lot of singles were mixed in the old days to sound good on old AM car radios.

Besides, as I said, I know REW would show all the narrow band peaks and dips in the response which I’m not really interested in seeing! The graph I showed is basically smoothed to 1/6 of an octave and that’s good enough for me.

I also used the app called IR Clap to measure the RT 60 response in the room. It showed a flat 0.25 second RT 60 from 200 Hz up … which is excellent and is the recommended value for my room size by the ITU. You simply set up your phone at your listening position, start the app, and clap your hands a couple of times, separated by a few seconds.

 

You have it correct in that I'm using LFE from my Emotiva XMC-1 prepro for mult-channel. For two channel I have a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE preamp with HT Bypass. So for CD and SACD playback my Marantz SA-KI Ruby is connected via analog to the STP-SE. So trying to incorporate my subs for two channel would be a bit complicated. It could possibly be done but at this point not using the subs for two channel music is fine.