Looks like I'll have to reconsider buying a Harbeth M40... I can go with a big boost if that helps them to be better in the bass range.
It's not vintage))) it's just an attempt to copy the design. Vintage is driver technology and crossover construction. These are lengthy test listening and evaluations before the release of the speakers. This is a completely different idea for building speakers.
I believe at least part of the preference for the vintage Tannoys probably relates to their benign and highish impedance characteristics.Which means that when they are combined with amplifiers with highish output impedance/lowish damping factors and some degree of current drive rather than pure voltage drive [like many tube amps] you get the best out of those amplifiers. If the modern drivers/crossovers have similar electrical character you should get a similar sound.Unfortunately many modern speakers have crossovers that are too over-engineeered in the pursuit of perfectly flat frequency response but which then create more demanding impedance and power requirement characteristics.The modern JBL horn speakers are certainly guilty of that with their fourth order crossovers.Perhaps Klipsch too?
Those new "vintage" Fyne have certainly got me interested. One of the most interesting speakers I've heard recently was a pair of vintage Tannoy Ardens.
Jeez - it's called 'vintage range' - if you have an issue with that have it out with Fyne Audio, yeah?
Thanks, but I wasn't interested in that. I know a lot from the “vintage range”, for example Warfedale Linton, Magnat Transpuls))
I dunno about that. A box, drivers, a crossover, some design revisions sure. Likely better but completely different idea?
I finally managed to listen to JBL L100 and 4349 at the same time. And my conclusions about the comparison of JBL 4349 and l100 75th were a complete surprise even for me. The large and rough 12-inch JBL 4349 driver was unable to play out the nuances of vocal parts, lost important sounds, and with them the realism of sound reproduction. From the saxophone of Ben Webster, only the upper part of the range remained, the bottom turned into a hum, there was no feeling of a saxophone in the room. Similarly, male vocals became unnatural, in the upper part of the voice range there was pressure and detail, and in the lower part there was a hum, slackness and a slower sound. Overall it was very far from the sound I would have wanted. Only the hum on the bass and the pressure on the treble, probably it's good for rock. But at the end I got a headache from such a sound. Disappointment. Despite the fact that the JBL L100 75th are a third cheaper, they sounded much more interesting and more musical than the 4349. The vocals sounded detailed and solid, there was a clear localization on the stereo stage. Ben Webster's saxophone sounded realistic, and Burb Jungr's emotions filled the heart. Even electronic music sounded lively and emotional. Overall, the JBL l100 75th sounded more balanced and exciting. I didn't want to rush, but I was limited in time. This comparison made me forget the idea of buying speakers without a preliminary listening. In addition, I realized that you need to evaluate the sound only on familiar tracks.
Leo, Definitely check out the Spatial Audio X premium open baffle. High effivciency, big but tight and controlled bass in a large room situation, lots of transparency and refinement. Spatial Audio Lab
Thank you, it looks very interesting. I'll try to find and listen. Now JBL is leaving the list of bidders for the purchase. JBL 4349 became a strong disappointment, JBL 4367 sound even worse, it seems to me these speakers are not for audiophiles. They will only be useful for voicing concert venues where sound quality is not so important. I'm thinking of finding a Harbeth m40... at a good price and a powerful amplifier to them for bass control, possibly in Class D. But maybe I will be able to listen to big JBL, like 4344, or something from K2, for example K2S5800.
I've heard a few different models of newer JBL speakers at AXPONA over the years-not this year-and have never been impressed. There was no detail and nuance. All the elements of the recordings seemed smoothed over. I understand I've only heard them in a less than an ideal environment but there was never anything about them that piqued my interest.
Not this year. Usually I make a point to visit the Spatial room but didn't this year. I don't remember why. It probably was way overcrowded and I didn't want to wait for a seat.
I guess to each its own. I cannot see myself driving an 8 inch woofer unless its 425 sq ft or up. Otherwise I wont experience the full potential of the cabinets..
That’s nonsense. Having had both vintage and Legacy series, if anything there’s more magic in the Legacy series when paired correctly. They are simply revealing the nature of Naim IMHO - I tried my classic Naim with the Legacy Ardens and you get a somewhat lean, edgy sound without the tonal colour I’d expect. FWIW I recently sold my Legacy Ardens and ‘downgraded’ to Harbeth. P3ESR SEs in my case. When paired carefully with a great sub - SVS SB3000 in my case - and tweaked properly using REW and patience(!) - I’ve ended up with a better/deeper bass in my 18’x15’x10’ room than I achieved with the Ardens. Very happy, though the Harbeths also sound unsatisfactory with my Naim amp (I tried, albeit without the sub).
DARKO just did a YOUTUBE review today of the 4349 vs Forte IV. He loves them in his room despite their difficulty of placement and amp selections. I have a feeling the OP didn't hear them with the correct amplification and/or placement.
@Gi54 Thanks for the heads up on the Fyne Vintage series those look super interesting. I was able to hear one of the F1 floorstanders at CAF last year it was excellent sounding.
I draw my conclusions based on multiple visits to my dealer's showroom. I listened to JBL 4349 with Hegel H590 and Mark Levinson 5802 amplifiers. My experience of owning Harbeth makes many speakers wrong. And I will tell you that playing my favorite vocal and jazz compositions on JBL 4349 speakers with these amplifiers was not an inch close to the realism that Harbeth gives me. I thought a lot about the reasons why JBL 4349 sounds so bad and found out that this is the case. JBL 4349 has a very serious design error. The woofer driver of these speakers does not keep up with the speed of the treble horn. In addition, it gives much less detail in the sound than an HF-horn. As a result, it turns out that two drivers are located on the same speaker, which have a completely different sound character. You will say that this is ok, because many speakers have such a structure. But the crossover frequency in the JBL 4349 makes the difference between the drivers more obvious. The designers made the crossover frequency exactly in the center of the most sensitive frequency range for our ears. Thus, the upper part of the voice range is detailed and fast, and the lower part is slow, rough and devoid of details. Your brain cannot put together these two different sources that create one voice into one sound. If your ears are trying to focus on the sound of the treble horn, but then the sound of the woofer driver is more like a buzz. If your ears are trying to focus on the sound of the woofer driver, then the sound of the treble horn seems too sharp and tearing. And it is impossible to put it together, because the crossover frequency is chosen incorrectly. At least this particular woofer driver cannot seamlessly dock with the horn, because the sound of the woofer driver is too slow and rough. Perhaps there are faster and more detailed woofer drivers, but this is a different case. JBL 4349 sounds too strange, maybe someone will call it colored. But I'll just call it a weird sound. An unrealistic strange sound. I can't even recognize the saxophone played by these strange speakers. And even more so, I will not rely on the opinion of another blogger who is forced to praise everything that he will be given for review. I have my own ears.
Yea what does JBL know about Speaker design of their Studio Monitors? They have only been used since the 1960's in almost every recording studio here in the USA. I have 3 of the 5 Harbeth Speakers here. They certainly are made for Jazz and vocal recordings but they are blown out of the water by JBL when it comes to Rock n Roll or Darko's favorite genre Electronica. To each his own.
I have both the Harbeth 40.3 xd and JBL L100’s, IMO no comparison. The JBL’s are a fun speaker for classic rock and funk but very limited with other music. The Harbeth’s are outstanding BUT you need a big room and be able to have 9/10 feet between your seat and the front of the speaker, plus they need to be about 3 feet from the back wall. Given the size of your room it should work well they are a bit too large for mine. Both do require a fair amount of power to sing, I’m using the Harbeths with a Pass X250.5 and the JBL’s with a Luxman 505. The other thing is depending on your seat heigh and distance the recommended stands may place the speakers too high. It did in my case.
