Buying Sealed Records on Discogs/Ebay

So, recently I've been on a bit of a record-buying kick, both new and on discogs/ebay. I'm just blown away by how many of these are warped. The last two records I bought on Discogs were sealed, and of course, both were warped. They will play fine, but man does the tone are and stylus bounce around while playing. I'm to the point where I think I will only buy records that have been opened and inspected.

Also, to return or not return? Since these are "used" records, not sure how to proceed. Clearly the sellers didn't know these were warped since they were sealed. On the other had, if this was from Amazon or a record store, I'd return in a heartbeat...

Sellers out there... what are your thoughts on customers returning in these instances? I should note, these aren't really collectible/high dollar records.

 

If it was sealed then the seller should have stated no returns.
A new old stock record that is sealed is a grab bag pure and simple, a seller typically shouldn't bear responsibility for what is inside when opened.

You can store it vertically (the proper way) on a shelf sandwiched tight in between a bunch of other lps and after about a year or so the warp will go away (or lessen if it's real bad), or you can try a vinyl flat machine.

 

As I always request the seller to break the seal to ship the record outside the jacket, I've never received a warped copy in dozens of such purchases on Discogs.
Just last night being my latest.

 

I would accept the return: buyer paid for a good record, not for a warped one

 

When I buy old stock sealed records the risk is all mine.

 

So, on the last one, I reached out to the seller and we agreed that I would pay return shipping and they would accept the return. Seems fair to me. At the end of the day, I as a buyer just want a record I can listen to.

 

It’s a gamble every time. I like to buy sealed vintage records and have had both great and terrible experiences with doing it. I’ve had everything from stone mint rare 60s psych to melted UK original Badfinger. If I do decide to open it, the risk is all on me. Generally when these types of records are sold, its value is in it being a collector’s item. If you are to open it, you have changed it from a collectors item to a used record. Similar to if you buy a sealed vintage star trek figure. If you open it, it’s nothing more than a used toy. I can’t imagine anyone would expect a comic seller to take back an opened figure that was sealed when they sold it.

If you’re talking about modern releases being sold by 3rd parties or independent record stores, again the risk is on you. I would never expect my local record store to take a return on a new release that I opened and decided I didn’t want for whatever reason. They have to eat the cost and that affects an individual who’s selling that record to keep their business going and a roof over their head. That’s why I only buy new releases from big box retailers or labels directly. That way when I get something warped or non-filled or whatever, a multi million dollar corporation take the hit, which they wouldn’t even notice. Recently I bought an OOP Magical Mystery Tour 2014 mono. It was sealed but I opened it and discovered it was slightly off center and had a pressing defect. I also bought a few other sealed 2014 Beatles monos. 2 others had defects, but I’d never think to expect the sellers to take those back. They are getting something of lesser value back, and have to then sell it again, probably making less off it.

 

Check out vinylcollect14 on eBay. I haven't seen this many original vintage sealed LP's for sale that are real not resealers that buried Goldmine Magazine and eBay for years. Go to his completed.

 

If I were selling, unless I as the seller clearly stated NO Returns, I would take it back. Again, not talking about collector's items here. The intent is for the customer to play the record. If it's unplayable, what's the point of buying the record? Both parties are taking a risk, but the understanding is that the record is a playable record. Also, I have totally returned records that were warped to local record stores. I've asked them if it's ok, didn't demand a return, and they have all said no problem. Why should a customer be stuck with a defective item? Record stores can return to their distributor. Individual sellers is a more complicated matter. But again, if I were the seller I'd take it back.

 

HAHAHA. I can assure you, when you return those records to your local store, they eat the cost, or sell them at a discount. Distributors don’t take back records these days, and in the very rare case a distributor would, they make record store owners jump through so many hoops to get a refund that most stores would rather eat the cost.

 

You really expect sellers to take back a record that was fine when they sent it but has been discovered to be defective after you opened it? Sorry that just doesn’t make sense. It’s Schrödinger's cat. The record was fine when they sold it to you, why would you expect them to take it back when it’s been opened and is now worth less than before? I fail to see the logic with that

 

Record stores eat their buys.

 

I think this is the correct take, but if the seller fails to specify no returns if the seal has been broken he’s left himself in a bad position.

Anyway, all this is a good lesson on why you shouldn’t spend very much money on a sealed vintage record, assuming you intend to open and play it.

 

Also sealed doesn't mean SEALED.
Crap can still get inside as the years roll by.
I traded with a real true friend that's a member here, and the record I received was "sealed" to my human not a microscopic eye...guess what ?
Poppity poppity crackle crackle crackle...
And the Discwasher system I've been using successfully since 1977 just didn't have what it took to clean it as deeply as it obviously needed.
Sold it to the comic book shop in the town I used to live in.

 

I return very few things in general. And for small stores, I ask them and they have all said "sure, no problem". Because here's the thing, guys. At the end of the day, a customer should have a USABLE product. Why should records be any different than auto parts or clothing? If you bought a pair of pants and one leg was shorter than the other, you wouldn't say "oh well. I guess I'm just out fifty bucks". There is nothing sacred here. If a customer buys a product and it's defective, then why should it be on the customer (the LEAST responsible party) to eat the cost of a defective item. That makes ZERO sense in any industry.

Again, for sealed records (I'm not talking collector's items here), unless the seller says "no refunds", I think this should be a returnable item. The product is literally defective, and I've purchased (presumably) a usable item, not a decoration to hang on my wall.

 

But here's the thing: it wasn't "fine", was it? It was warped and defective, regardless of whether or not it was opened. The item condition was simply unknown. If I sell an item that turns out to be defective, I'd take it back in a heartbeat because the customer deserves a usable item. This is basic golden rule stuff.

 

Here's an idea : If the seller doesn't state "As Is, No Returns " in his ad, ask him if it can be returned if damaged or warped.
There is no consensus on this here.
Very few are going to agree and this thread will just go on and on and on...

 

Excellent advice.

 

PayPal gives you back the money if an item is not as described, and it covers return shipping in many countries

A sealed record, tipycally graded mint on DiscoGS, if found warped is not as described, so PayPal can take care of it, regardless if the seller stated no returns in his/her terms

 

Curious about this. So if the seller simply describes the record as sealed (or explicitly says they have no idea of the actual condition of the record under the seal), then PayPal won’t help? That would be an accurate description. I think Joe Seller should be protected in that case.

 

The problem with sites like Discogs is they force you to select a media grade. If selling on eBay, I *think* you can opt to not select a media grade and then put Sealed in the description with appropriate disclaimers that you can not grade the media and are simply selling a sealed record in unknown condition, which IMO is the smart way to go given eBay almost automatically siding with buyers.

I don’t, however, know if this has been tested where eBay, PayPal, etc has backed a seller who made no claims of a media grade (only that the record was sealed) and where a claim was made by a buyer that the record was defective. It would be interesting to know.

On Discogs, I think you’d have to select media as Fair or Poor to totally cover yourself and in the description, state the record is sealed and you have no way to grade it, so you always default to a low media grade to cover unexpected outcomes. But then, likely, no one would even get that far to look at your listing. Though pricing it at NM level with a Poor media grade might be curious enough that people would wonder why and then read your description and follow your logic.

 

The challenge with a sealed record is it’s true that the seller has no idea of the record condition inside. This presents a problem for the seller, as an unethical buyer could buy the record, claim a defect, and swap a bad record they already have. So a sealed record gives them an opportunity for a free upgrade. Or, they buy the record, maybe have an accident with it (it gets warped, scratched, etc), and they have a mulligan to return a record they themself damaged.

Now it’s true that if the record they already have is just a beat used record, it’s harder to plausibly make that swap. But if you already have an excellent condition record with a pressing flaw or that is warped, it would be easy enough to do so.

For a business, it’s a risk of doing business. Perhaps in some states, they could get away with a no return policy, but given the number of actual pressing flaws with modern records, they wouldn’t be viewed as a good store.

For an individual who’s just using Discogs to sell a sealed record from their collection and despite the Mint rating (you’re forced to select a media grade on Discogs), they clearly spell out that they can’t grade a sealed record and use Mint for all sealed records, but can’t guarantee media condition or accept returns on sealed records, then they’ve done their part to try and cover themselves.

And when you purchase on Discogs, you have to select the checkbox that says you’ve read and agree with the sellers policies, so if a seller has done all of that to spell it out and you still want to return the record despite that, then PayPal may still have your back if the media was graded Mint, but I personally don’t agree with that approach.

 

When listing on DiscoGS you have to choose a grading for the media (you can leave blank the rating for the cover/artwork or choose No Cover if you are selling only the media).

Tipycally a sealed record gets a Mint rating for the media, since that's what it's supposed to be. Grading it otherwise would be... funny?

That's why I would accept the return if one of my sealed records would be found warped or defective in any other way. It never happened so far...

Then there's always the possibility to talk about a partial refund, which is something I try to avoid.
My terms clearly state "no partial refunds", but I may propose one under certain circumstances.

 

If that seller is on eBay or Discogs, then his no returns policy is pointless and irrelevant as both eBay and PayPal (for Discogs sales) will enforce the return. If a seller wants their no return policy to be enforceable they 1) cannot accept PayPal (or any payment system that provides buyer protection) and 2) sell on any site that offers buyer protection regardless of payment method.

 

Putting aside that on Discogs you have to provide a grade, even for sealed records, and "sealed" is not one of the options...not 100% sure how PayPal would handle such a situation but my guess is that it wouldn't fly and they'd likely consider "sealed" to mean new and therefore free of defects.

I think if you the wording wasn't ambiguous and didn't allude to any possible grade and the seller called PayPal to argue (nicely) their case, they might just get away with not having to refund the buyer. Long shot though.

I've often thought of selling some of my sealed copies I have and stating the record is sealed, grading the sleeve as per normal and then putting a low grade on the vinyl, eg VG or VG+. My experience with buying really old sealed records is that often, if they play NM or Mint, they do not look mint as over the years the inner sleeves can leave staining that cannot be removed, but is not audible. The vinyl looks pretty awful so anyone wanting a Mint looking copy would be disappointed.